waldo135

Either very poor training, or you have forgotten. Google 737 speed trim on takeoff. It’s a real thing.

BobZ

After a while It becomes transparent on the ng. At first it does register.

Delta2heavy

After takeoff it will sometimes

gloopy

That's whay I've read as well, except the "different enough" was merely mandated extra sim time, not necessarily a new type rating. Since operators were freaking out over the possibility of anything other than "train by memo" then that's how the whole thing came about.

I find it hard to believe the difference in feel from NG to MAX would be vastly greater than that between 777 and 787 (didn't one airline finagle their way into a "common type" for those? Anyway the 757-2 and 3 and 767-2 and 3, or 88 and 90, or 318 19 20 21 21NEO 21LR 21XLR, or a 737-100 and a 737-900 etc. From what I've read there was a difference, but it wasn't that much and I can't imagine was radically more than existing differences in common types.

Regardless of the degree to which it was different, there is never under any circumstance a compelling reason to roll in full nose down trim that creates a load based unrecoverable scenario.

forgot to bid

The QF32 story is a good TEM study for anyone, but especially Airbus pilots.

I didn't pay attention to it because it was an A380 and I fly the 320, but a lot of what happened had similarities and we should all pay attention to what they did.

First the incident was caused by a misaligned boring of a stub pipe in the #2 RR Trent engine on the airplane. It was a QC issue not a design issue.

Not long after takeoff the engine exploded with 500 shrapnel hits on the jet, 650 wires cut, I believe every system compromised and several tires blown in the well.

They had 100 ECAMs to run and no way to talk to Qantas.

And all of these ECAMS were sent to Qantas fwiw. They're sitting in their OCC equivalent looking at all of these ECAMs going what in the hell is going on here? And then they start seeing news reports of a downed Qantas jet and they put two and two together but knew the jet was still flying.

So remember this when you're like "I'm not calling ATL Radio..." They're getting all the ECAMs and data, let the Airbus experts down there in MCC help.

But it flew on for 3 hours with the Captain on occasion stopping and asking the crew "should we just put her in the water now?" Not to be the next Swiss Air, but the crew thought they could do it.

They were leaking massive amounts of fuel by the way and only 3 of 11 fuel tanks were even working and one had a souvenir.



Fascinating stuff.

5 pilots by the way. 1 Captian, 1 FO, 1 FO/SO... and 2 LCA. And they butted heads at the outset over where the LCA would sit. Like whoa.

And when they landed, it was only after they massaged the numbers and finally got a number that made landing a possibility. As they slowed the airplane it started to buffet. Turns out the ailerons were failed and slipstreaming. So they found they couldn't get slower.

A320 Podcast

But it wasn't a bad design by Airbus. RR ate that one. Cost well over $100M to put the airplane back together and RR wrote a big check over it.

TED74

"Never taught" being the key phrase. We aren't taught much these days.

Here's the patent for the speed trim system if you really want detail. Autotrims a lot during initial climbout...

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4676460A/en

m3113n1a1

That wheel is always moving around on climb out while hand flying without me touching anything!

Baradium

I was thinking the same thing. I guess if you never hand fly after acceleration height you might not notice it, but it's a lot of movement. It was also discussed fairly in depth in training, at least to the point of knowing it exists.

FMGEC

STS- Speed Trim System...

Speed trim is applied to the stabilizer automatically at low speed, low weight, aft C of G and high thrust. Sometimes you may notice that the speed trim is trimming in the opposite direction to you, this is because the speed trim is trying to trim the stabilizer in the direction calculated to provide the pilot with positive speed stability characteristics. The speed trim system adjusts stick force so the pilot must provide significant amount of pull force to reduce airspeed or a significant amount of push force to increase airspeed. Whereas, pilots are typically trying to trim the stick force to zero. Occasionally these may be in opposition.

GogglesPisano

Exactly. I feel forward pressure on climb-out starting around 700-800 feet. The trim-wheel is not turning. It uses HYD pressure with feedback through the control column.