C Series Info
12-21-2017, 08:10 AM
#1852
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
12-21-2017, 08:14 AM
#1853
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-...aer-1513874742
Looks like Boeing wants a piece of the 100-150 seat jet market, and maybe biz jet market. This lends credence to the theory that Boeing wanted these tariffs only to be be able to “save” the c series program (or all of bbd) with a cheap acquisition.
Looks like Boeing wants a piece of the 100-150 seat jet market, and maybe biz jet market. This lends credence to the theory that Boeing wanted these tariffs only to be be able to “save” the c series program (or all of bbd) with a cheap acquisition.
12-21-2017, 08:17 AM
#1854
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Reports were they had been negotiating to acquire the c$eries...or entire company before it fell apart.
Its hardball business. 100% boeing was hammering them wth the threat of a trade complaint dagger to the heart if the bbd acquisition price didnt drop to liquidation levels.
Boeing has likely screwed themselves out of a significant future part of the nb market by being a bully and save a few pennies.
Future Ab/c$eries are going to built in the non union southeast US. An onshore aircraft maker with these advantages does not bode well for the clowns in seattle.
Its hardball business. 100% boeing was hammering them wth the threat of a trade complaint dagger to the heart if the bbd acquisition price didnt drop to liquidation levels.
Boeing has likely screwed themselves out of a significant future part of the nb market by being a bully and save a few pennies.
Future Ab/c$eries are going to built in the non union southeast US. An onshore aircraft maker with these advantages does not bode well for the clowns in seattle.
Last edited by BobZ; 12-21-2017 at 08:28 AM.
12-21-2017, 08:17 AM
#1855
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 945
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-...aer-1513874742
Looks like Boeing wants a piece of the 100-150 seat jet market, and maybe biz jet market. This lends credence to the theory that Boeing wanted these tariffs only to be be able to “save” the c series program (or all of bbd) with a cheap acquisition.
Looks like Boeing wants a piece of the 100-150 seat jet market, and maybe biz jet market. This lends credence to the theory that Boeing wanted these tariffs only to be be able to “save” the c series program (or all of bbd) with a cheap acquisition.
12-21-2017, 08:22 AM
#1856
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Boeing Held Takeover Talks With Brazilian Aircraft Maker Embraer
Boeing and Embraer have discussed deal that would value Embraer at a big premium to its market value Thursday morning of some $3.7 billion
Boeing Co. has been in takeover talks with Brazilian aircraft maker Embraer SA, a move that would strengthen Boeing’s hand in the regional jet market and help it counter a recent move by Airbus SE to strike a similar deal.
Boeing and Embraer have been discussing a deal that would involve a relatively large premium for Embraer, which had a market value of about $3.7 billion Thursday morning, according to people familiar with the matter. The talks are on hold as the parties await word from the Brazilian government on whether it would sign off on the combination. The government has a so-called golden share in Embraer that gives it veto powers over such a transaction.
Embraer is a crown-jewel of Brazilian industry, and it’s far from guaranteed the government would sign off; therefore there’s an even higher probability than in a typical merger negotiation that there won’t be any deal. Indeed, some of the people cautioned it is unlikely the talks will be revived.
In order to help entice the government, Boeing is willing to take steps to protect Embraer’s brand, management and jobs, one of the people said. It’s also willing to structure a deal in a way that would protect the government’s interest in Embraer’s defense business.
Boeing and Embraer have discussed deal that would value Embraer at a big premium to its market value Thursday morning of some $3.7 billion
Boeing Co. has been in takeover talks with Brazilian aircraft maker Embraer SA, a move that would strengthen Boeing’s hand in the regional jet market and help it counter a recent move by Airbus SE to strike a similar deal.
Boeing and Embraer have been discussing a deal that would involve a relatively large premium for Embraer, which had a market value of about $3.7 billion Thursday morning, according to people familiar with the matter. The talks are on hold as the parties await word from the Brazilian government on whether it would sign off on the combination. The government has a so-called golden share in Embraer that gives it veto powers over such a transaction.
Embraer is a crown-jewel of Brazilian industry, and it’s far from guaranteed the government would sign off; therefore there’s an even higher probability than in a typical merger negotiation that there won’t be any deal. Indeed, some of the people cautioned it is unlikely the talks will be revived.
In order to help entice the government, Boeing is willing to take steps to protect Embraer’s brand, management and jobs, one of the people said. It’s also willing to structure a deal in a way that would protect the government’s interest in Embraer’s defense business.
12-21-2017, 08:36 AM
#1857
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 393
I’ll post to PNW Boeing fanboy what i posted in the JB thread.
It isn’t quite as simple as you make it sound. Here’s a good history on the fight against the level playing field by Boeing and Airbus. It doesn’t mention some current items of relevance, like the ExIm stuff, but I’m sure PNW is already aware but just doesn’t want to acknowledge it.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-fr...-subsidy-wars/
Boeing has received subsidies before which enabled them to enter and eventually dominate the airliner manufacturing market. They also rely on subsidized airlines to purchase their aircraft. As mentioned above, they also sell subsidized aircraft to airlines that take US jobs. They also kill off competitors (like what they are trying to do now) and make “new” 60 year old airplanes because instead of innovating, they stifle innovative competition. In this business, one can’t simply enter the market with a good idea...even a company like bombardier. It’s an impossible task to fight this airliner duopoly. I’m assuming you wish the big 3 auto companies shouldn’t have been bailed out and we should all be driving Toyotas?
Once the production of the c series increases, Canada will get paid back. It’s not supposed to be endless corporate welfare like ME3. Boeing is crying and pitching a fit like my 2 year old because Bombardier got bailed out for the production of one aircraft that will transform their business. ME3’s whole business model revolves around subsidies, but Boeing doesn’t mind selling to them. Airbus required subsidies to become a player back in the day. Boeing fought it, ultimately coming to a truce, as Boeing’s subsidies thru other programs were brought to light (according to that brookings article).
Lastly, Boeing outsources a lot of its manufacturing overseas. In fact I think more of the c series is made in the USA than is the 787, and certainly will be once Mobile is up and running. And every manufacturer gives significant discounts, especially at the beginning of production, trying to win initial orders. If I recall, the 787 just started to become profitable this year. That means they’ve been selling at a loss this whole time (and I think taking tax write offs for those losses). Boeing was able to get money/financing because they are bigger, have higher revenue and money from other buckets, and are an aerospace/defense giant. Bombardier ran out of money, had no more financing options, and took a loan from their government. Not a huge difference. At the end of the day bombardier makes a good product (better than any narrowbody that boeing makes) that will eventually be profitable. I fail to see how bombardier did anything remotely close to warranting a 300% tariff. I hope Delta continues to become a mostly airbus fleet, foreign military and airline Boeing sales decline, and boeing eventually loses this war. I’d love to see bombardier make a CS500/700 that dominates their 737. I used to be a huge Boeing fan. But eff them now.
It isn’t quite as simple as you make it sound. Here’s a good history on the fight against the level playing field by Boeing and Airbus. It doesn’t mention some current items of relevance, like the ExIm stuff, but I’m sure PNW is already aware but just doesn’t want to acknowledge it.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-fr...-subsidy-wars/
Boeing has received subsidies before which enabled them to enter and eventually dominate the airliner manufacturing market. They also rely on subsidized airlines to purchase their aircraft. As mentioned above, they also sell subsidized aircraft to airlines that take US jobs. They also kill off competitors (like what they are trying to do now) and make “new” 60 year old airplanes because instead of innovating, they stifle innovative competition. In this business, one can’t simply enter the market with a good idea...even a company like bombardier. It’s an impossible task to fight this airliner duopoly. I’m assuming you wish the big 3 auto companies shouldn’t have been bailed out and we should all be driving Toyotas?
Once the production of the c series increases, Canada will get paid back. It’s not supposed to be endless corporate welfare like ME3. Boeing is crying and pitching a fit like my 2 year old because Bombardier got bailed out for the production of one aircraft that will transform their business. ME3’s whole business model revolves around subsidies, but Boeing doesn’t mind selling to them. Airbus required subsidies to become a player back in the day. Boeing fought it, ultimately coming to a truce, as Boeing’s subsidies thru other programs were brought to light (according to that brookings article).
Lastly, Boeing outsources a lot of its manufacturing overseas. In fact I think more of the c series is made in the USA than is the 787, and certainly will be once Mobile is up and running. And every manufacturer gives significant discounts, especially at the beginning of production, trying to win initial orders. If I recall, the 787 just started to become profitable this year. That means they’ve been selling at a loss this whole time (and I think taking tax write offs for those losses). Boeing was able to get money/financing because they are bigger, have higher revenue and money from other buckets, and are an aerospace/defense giant. Bombardier ran out of money, had no more financing options, and took a loan from their government. Not a huge difference. At the end of the day bombardier makes a good product (better than any narrowbody that boeing makes) that will eventually be profitable. I fail to see how bombardier did anything remotely close to warranting a 300% tariff. I hope Delta continues to become a mostly airbus fleet, foreign military and airline Boeing sales decline, and boeing eventually loses this war. I’d love to see bombardier make a CS500/700 that dominates their 737. I used to be a huge Boeing fan. But eff them now.
12-21-2017, 09:31 AM
#1859
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,538
Did BA and AB dump (or even offer to) in order to stop the C?
What were those prices? The lowest offered by either should now be the guaranteed price paid by anyone in the world who wants them. Otherwise BBD can show "harm" from "dumping".
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