Tfork

so you don't want to take the facts to a court? Show me the facts that you have that prove it was a lab leak. I'm not a judge or jury but you seem to want me to agree that it's a fact. Please don't tell me what everyone believes because you have no idea. Even so, their beliefs are immaterial. What matters are provable facts that it was leaked from a lab.

Thedude86

What facts do you have that it was a natural occurrence? There's none. Neither scenario will ever see the likes of a courtroom because no one is held accountable anymore and ill agree that there is no actual proof of either... but if there ever was such a case, there's enough evidence to suggest it was a lab leak if the standard to convict is "beyond a reasonable doubt". There is absolutely ZERO evidence of any natural occurrence other than Dr. Fauci claiming so the first 2 years. He was one of the people in charge of funding the lab. If anyone has any reason to cover it up, its him. Yet, you still believe him for some odd reason. That's like saying you believed OJ Simpson when he said he's innocent.

Maybe both theories are technically a "conspiracy", but at least the lab leak has significant weight (and common sense). Natural occurrence is more of a conspiracy than Elvis and 2pac still being alive and reading the national enquirer together as part of their weekly book club.

Youre still living in 2020 when the rest of the world has gotten caught up. Even the most hard core liberals now think it was a lab leak. Dr. Fauci no longer denies it. He specifically said just a month ago that he doesn't believe lab leak is a conspiracy and that its plausible. CDC director during covid, Robert Redfield, believes it was most likely a lab leak.

rickair7777

Initially, Occam's Razor very clearly indicated likely natural origin. Based on the fact that millions of viruses have jumped species throughout all of know natural history. While lab leaks can be counted on one hand.

Kind of like if you're climbing in the mountains and get hit on the head by something hard. You can reasonably assume that it was a falling rock, not a baseball. But it could in theory be a baseball, if someone was doing batting practice on top of the mountain. In theory.

My suspicion shifted more in the direction of lab leak based on the potency of various virus strains in the couple years after the initial outbreak. That might hint at GoF enhancements, otherwise you'd expect the bug to get more contagious and less potent pretty quickly (like all the other corona cold viruses).

That may be where it ends.


No, the evidence for natural origin is millions of years of natural history, most viruses came from other species. So that's a perfectly sane assumption with no info to the contrary.

The Michael Crichton explanation is the one that requires evidence, which from my perspective we now have with regard to the behavior of the virus over time. Irregardless of Fauci emails, etc.

Nobody had any reason to doubt Fauci either, in early 2020. It wasn't apparent then or even suspected that he had any involvement in offshoring of banned GoF research.

Tfork

You don't seem to understand the argument. I never claimed it was a natural occurance, although that is a possibility. You claimed the lab leak had tons of evidence ( and common sense) which you have provided none. Since you have no evidence to provide, you're confirming that it's a conspiracy theory. You keep telling me everyone thinks this or that when you have no idea. You don't know what most hard core liberals think and yet, as I said before, it doesn't even matter. What matters are provable facts. YOU made the assertion so back it up. You can't, ergo, conspiracy theory.

Excargodog

WHOA,Rick. That AIN'T going to fly. You CANNOT Occam's Razor something based upon "millions of years of natural history" when for 99.999999% of that time labs investigating ANY SORT of biology just didn't exist. Crimes, the whole germ theory didn't exist 200 years ago.Louis Parteur was only born in 1822 (and only four days short of 1823 at that) and talking about viruses - the first electron microscope wasn't built until 1931. You cannot base a statistical (or even Occam's razor" analysis on millions of years during which no possibility of something actually occurring even existed.

Now if you look at lab accidents involving viruses since 1930, they are hardly that uncommon

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/science/ar...004113_10.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...ort=objectonly

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ReluctantEskimo

Lab conspiracy theorists on suicide watch.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...d-19-outbreak/

Excargodog

Hardly. There were 42,000 wet markets in China at the time of the COVID outbreak:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-food-markets/

Even if the COVID epidemic was caused by a wet market animal, the odds would only be one in 42,000 it woukd have been the Wuhan market, only a few blocks away. Especially since the putative animal source has not to this day been identified. The nearest virus found that seemed like it might be a predecessor virus was in Southwestern China almost a thousand miles away - samples of which were being worked on at the Wuhan lab:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-lab-leak.html

and we know the Chinese government stopped cooperating immediately once the epidemic started going so far as to delete data they had previously posted online about coronavirus research at Wuhan..

vaxedtothemax

Other than politicians in Congress, I don't think anyone truly cares where it started. The fact that people who mentioned it was a lab leak were censored, discredited, and some lossed jobs or licenses is far more concerning.

Now how about the NYC Covid doctor who was the #1 and advised Deblossio (sp?)! He just got outted as partying during his recommended lockdowns, admitted him and his wife had an open marriage, and doesn't deny he was at orgie parties in underground party spots in Wall Street during his recommended mandates. His excuse was he was letting off steam due to his own recommended lockdowns.

So while you are concerned about a lab leak/market debate from 10,000 miles away, the rest of us are more concerned with how Democratic Governors and Mayors used a highly survivable new flu to gain more government control. Destroyed the middle class, made life worse for a majority of minorities, ruined many school age childrens lives.

Find me a Democratic Lockdown Governor/Mayor who didn't break their own mandates?

Heres my list just off the top of my head using no search engine

Deblossio
Newsom
Denver Mayor
San Fran Mayor
Hawaii, now Governor, Green
Honolulu Mayor
Maui Mayor Victorino
Gretchan Wilson
Lori Lightfoot
AOC
Nancy Pelosi

John Carr

"COVID? You're still on that?"

The tagline of the type of people that simply DON'T like hearing the truths/facts you espouse.

It's amazing how NO ONE that was (some STILL ARE) on that side just won't acknowledge.......

Excargodog

https://reason.com/2024/10/06/the-ma...e-was-science/

Anthony Fauci, the Man Who Thought He Was Science

On Call, Anthony Fauci's new memoir, can't disguise the damage caused by his COVID-19 policies.

JAY BHATTACHARYA FROM THE NOVEMBER 2024 ISSUE

An excerpt: