Seneca Pilot

They aren't preventable deaths. This is an airborne virus and people will die. If no deaths is your goalpost you're out of your mind.

Knobcrk1

Oh really they weren’t preventable? Obviously people will die, what matters is how it’s handled. The goal posts were regarding your buddy not liking reality of all the dead so they’re trying shift perspective on it’s just part of being alive. Still doesn’t address the issue.

Flyfalcons

So you'd feel better if all the 80+ year olds waiting to die in nursing homes, died of something else instead?

Seneca Pilot

Well, some were preventable. Cuomo did force infected patients into nursing homes so there's that.

Excargodog

I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you. Let’s review the bidding, shall we?



So what does that really mean, 116 million births so far this year? Or 67.5 million net population gain this year? Well, among other things it means that we crossed the Rubicon on the Hunter-gatherer life style at least a century ago. It means the world has over a half billion people under the age of five and two billion kids who need to be doing the K-12 thing and we need a world economy that will support that, not one in lockdown, and if we lose a few more people than usual - and yeah, out of an annual mortality of 60 million or so, 1.2 million does qualify as a few - that will still be less than we will lose to famine, diseases caused by famine, and war if we shutdown the economy.

Do 1.2 million people matter? Yeah, every death is a tragedy, but the 140 million new souls added this year matter too, as do the two billion not getting a proper education and the many millions in this world who were already on the margin of viability who these lockdowns will push over the line.

You want to talk about just the US? Fine. The US annually detects three million new cancers through early screening, Pap smears. Mammography, screening colonoscopies, etc. Two thirds of those cancers are cured by early diagnosis and treatment. But those services have been shutdown as ‘non-essential’ by government fiat. Do you seriously think those cancers have just stopped occurring? They haven’t. Oh they WILL be discovered eventually, those cancers make themselves known, but they will be discovered at a more advanced state, requiring more extensive surgery, more extensive chemotherapy, more extensive radiation treatments, and even then having higher mortality. What about those lives? And what about education for the kids? Your kids might have access to good online education and be old enough to make use of it, but a lot of kids won’t. And already this year 300,000 kids in the US alone haven’t gone their usual childhood immunizations compared to last year. Ever hear of Haemophilus influenza?

We have an excellent vaccine against it. After it was introduced in 1987 99% of our Hib cases went away. Well guess what? That’s one of the childhood immunizations kids haven’t been getting during the lockdown. We are accumulating a population of susceptibles to a common BACTERIAL disease, We will pay the price for that in dead kids.

You treat COVID like It’s the only issue on earth and anything that saves one person from dying of it is a win. It’s not. Sometimes it’s a loss.

You need to set aside the mindless panic and realize that.

Seneca Pilot

These guys are making political arguments to a medical problem and they are unreachable. I have posted on numerous threads the data on the lost years of life caused by the lockdowns and it dwarfs the life lost due to the virus. These lockdowns will have unintended consequences down the road that will be irreversible if we don't get a grip and accept that people die every day from many causes. There will always be a virus, natural disasters, crashes, cancers, infections, heart disease, and any number of reasons for death. None of us will get out alive.

All Bizniz

We can do something about it. And we've known what to do about it....... for a long time.

COVID-19 is a virus that though it is unique compared to the other viruses (hence the "NOVEL" moniker), is also quite similar in many ways, and so the tools/protocol that can be employed against it, are similar to those used in the cases of SARs, MERs, H1n1, etc.

So what are the tools the experts say are available to combat it? :
Hand Washing/Use of Hand Sanitizer, Social Distancing, Masks, Testing, Quarantining/Isolation, Lockdown, and of course a Vaccine.

Which tools you use when, and in what combination, is a function of the extent of the outbreak.

Vaccine is seen as the panacea.

Hand Washing, Social Distancing and Masks, while an inconvenience, are the least disruptive and should be applied consistently and universally at the first sign of the virus or warnings of its approach. It is unfortunate that the wearing of masks have gotten so political as it seen to be most effective when the overwhelming majority of the population buys into the importance of its use.

Testing is a surveillance function which ideally would detect local outbreaks and map out potential hot spots.

Having been detected, Quarantining and Isolation is the tool that would be used to keep those infected away from the rest of the population, so that the rest of us can get on with our lives.

When that system fails, Lockdowns become a consideration. It is the most aggressive; to be used only as a last resort when the rates of infections/deaths are so high, that the possibility exists that the healthcare system might be in danger of being overwhelmed. It is the big red "EMERGENCY STOP" button.

Hitting this button obviously comes with a huge, some might say intolerable economic cost, and so the politicians and the public health officials when faced with this situation, invariably will have competing agendas - especially in an election year.

Whose agenda prevails, or if a balance of these agendas can even be achieved, depends on the cast of characters in the play.

In the case of the US, we are in the Third Act of our Five Act Shakespearean Tragedy, whose climax will no doubt occur on, or around November 3rd.

https://www.storyboardthat.com/artic...-act-structure

block30

This post brought to you by....
the guy who condescnded my handle on science because his wife is an elementary school teacher.


Hows life as a troll going for ya? Or is it more a state of being completely in the tank for your political priors?

Public school teacher I assume too. I too am related to many, came up K-12 plus 4 years college in public/government schools. Yeah. They have a political bent. And you know that. Or you should but dont.

Enjoy your lockdown.

block30

Not having definitive answers is carte blanche for shredding the constitution?

My god. You are the gift that keeps on giving. I hope you are let no where near power.

But your wife with her teacher job is still making money and presumably you are too, so youre ok selling everyone else down the river.

Know what, next time I get actiavted for the riots, swing on by. Pick up a riot shield and say hi. See what all this unrest is doing.

NE_Pilot

Ok, so then clearly we should be able to easily tell when/if a mask mandate, lockdown, etc. went into effect by looking at charts that don’t tell us when or if any of that happened, right? You would be able to pick out which charts are associated with areas that took those measures (and roughly when) and which ones didn’t? The difference would be noticeable, correct?