Will airlines force employees get vaccine??
02-11-2021, 05:00 PM
#421
Clear ECAM
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 952
They want to give you both vaccines, so you get the T-cell training of the VV, combined with the antibody response of the mRNA.
Just take the L on this and move on. You made a bonehead statement and got called out. Stop digging your heels in trying to pretend otherwise.
02-11-2021, 07:05 PM
#422
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Dude you are so far out to lunch I can’t even believe you’re being serious right now. Your words are black and white for everyone to read. There was no context, you made a declarative statement. You said that the mRNA vaccines DO NOT give a CD8 or T-cell immune response. You also said this.
You implicitly stated with this that there is no T-cell response from mRNA vaccines, but there is from the VV vaccines. That. Is. False.
Just take the L on this and move on. You made a bonehead statement and got called out. Stop digging your heels in trying to pretend otherwise.
You implicitly stated with this that there is no T-cell response from mRNA vaccines, but there is from the VV vaccines. That. Is. False.
Just take the L on this and move on. You made a bonehead statement and got called out. Stop digging your heels in trying to pretend otherwise.
Last edited by Mesabah; 02-11-2021 at 07:27 PM.
02-11-2021, 08:24 PM
#423
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 777 Captain in Training
Posts: 1,457
Because it almost certainly DOES prevent or greatly reduce spread from a vaccinated person.
The bureaucrats just can't come out and say that until they have some data.
But nobodies getting forced regardless. You might have to make some some career/lifestyle adjustments, but if you don't want the vaccine you won't have to get it (in the US).
Update: Now CDC policy seems to imply that the vaccine will prevent spread...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2AB0EG
The bureaucrats just can't come out and say that until they have some data.
But nobodies getting forced regardless. You might have to make some some career/lifestyle adjustments, but if you don't want the vaccine you won't have to get it (in the US).
Update: Now CDC policy seems to imply that the vaccine will prevent spread...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2AB0EG
In reality you do not really know anything for sure you just have your opinion. Words like almost certainly, seem to imply do not come close to being factual. Hell I almost won the lottery I had 2 of the numbers.
02-11-2021, 09:42 PM
#424
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,030
That's absolutely not what was stated, how you read something is not my problem. Instead of asking for clarification like an adult, you went to google, and found an article on an old variant of the Pfizer vaccine. Then, when I told you what was stated, you refuse to believe it for God knows what reason. Moreover, the mRNA vaccines aren't even designed for that anyway, it was certainly a shock to me, when the data came out a few months ago that the Pfizer one did. Although, Pfizer is known for falsifying data. The Moderna, which you fail to even mention, is minimal by comparison.
02-11-2021, 10:14 PM
#425
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
I can tell immediately he doesn't understand these concepts, CD8 are T cells. T-cell response and training are not the same thing either. Also, other T cells, CD4 helper, activate B cells to release antibodies among other functions. Of course all these vaccines would elicit a T cell response.
02-12-2021, 06:59 AM
#426
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,382
Yes, I could get another job in biomed in my home town, which is convenient, but I don't really want to do that after decades in aviation. I'd rather we all just keep our airline jobs.
Of course it's just my opinion, so is everything else on here. But I have enough real-world background to throw the flag on some of the complete BS that gets tossed around, and to make some pretty educated guesses on some other things. People have been telling me how wrong I am since we started talking about vaccines last year but I don't recall actually being wrong about anything vaccine-related after it all played out. Take it for what it's worth.
Last edited by rickair7777; 02-12-2021 at 03:48 PM.
02-13-2021, 06:36 AM
#427
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: CRJ9 CA
Posts: 4,083
There are three things I don't like about the mRNA vaccines
1. Mishandling the vaccine ruins the quality of it
2. The lipid delivery system might have adverse effects on the liver over time
3. You have to be exposed to the virus to get an additional level of T-cell training that the viral vector already gives you. Thus, the people taking the mRNA might still be able to spread the virus, or another variant of it.
There has been a lot of nonsense about DNA manipulation, that has no basis in fact. That shouldn't be a consideration in which vaccine you should get.
1. Mishandling the vaccine ruins the quality of it
2. The lipid delivery system might have adverse effects on the liver over time
3. You have to be exposed to the virus to get an additional level of T-cell training that the viral vector already gives you. Thus, the people taking the mRNA might still be able to spread the virus, or another variant of it.
There has been a lot of nonsense about DNA manipulation, that has no basis in fact. That shouldn't be a consideration in which vaccine you should get.
02-13-2021, 04:28 PM
#428
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 777 Captain in Training
Posts: 1,457
??? I thought we all had the same job here? Airline pilot?
Yes, I could get another job in biomed in my home town, which is convenient, but I don't really want to do that after decades in aviation. I'd rather we all just keep our airline jobs.
Of course it's just my opinion, so is everything else on here. But I have enough real-world background to throw the flag on some of the complete BS that gets tossed around, and to make some pretty educated guesses on some other things. People have been telling me how wrong I am since we started talking about vaccines last year but I don't recall actually being wrong about anything vaccine-related after it all played out. Take it for what it's worth.
Yes, I could get another job in biomed in my home town, which is convenient, but I don't really want to do that after decades in aviation. I'd rather we all just keep our airline jobs.
Of course it's just my opinion, so is everything else on here. But I have enough real-world background to throw the flag on some of the complete BS that gets tossed around, and to make some pretty educated guesses on some other things. People have been telling me how wrong I am since we started talking about vaccines last year but I don't recall actually being wrong about anything vaccine-related after it all played out. Take it for what it's worth.
02-13-2021, 05:00 PM
#429
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,382
Some airlines *might* require all employees to get vaccinated, that's going to depend on corporate culture, and the business and legal landscape. They *can* legally do so, once vaccines have regular FDA approval. If they start getting sued left and right by customers and employees who get covid from other employees, and the fed just lets it happen, that's going to drive mandatory vaccination. Some airlines are already advocating mandatory vaccination, and at least one has said they will not mandate it.
If circumstances mandate that airline workers need to be vaccinated, I'm cool with that. And I don't think airlines should pay people who CHOOSE not to meet the minimum requirements to come to work.
02-13-2021, 06:16 PM
#430
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,316
The closest thing I've said to that is IF foreign countries REQUIRE inbound aliens to be vaccinated you're going to have to comply or find a new job unless you can bid domestic only. Even most regionals go to Canada. That's obvious fact, the only part subject to debate is how likely it will be that critical destinations mandate it. Maybe they'll allow a pre-arrival test in lieu of vaccination. Or maybe not. But either way, the peoples republic of china (or the peoples republic of canada) aren't going to do any polls to see what you or I think about the issue.
Some airlines *might* require all employees to get vaccinated, that's going to depend on corporate culture, and the business and legal landscape. They *can* legally do so, once vaccines have regular FDA approval. If they start getting sued left and right by customers and employees who get covid from other employees, and the fed just lets it happen, that's going to drive mandatory vaccination. Some airlines are already advocating mandatory vaccination, and at least one has said they will not mandate it.
If circumstances mandate that airline workers need to be vaccinated, I'm cool with that. And I don't think airlines should pay people who CHOOSE not to meet the minimum requirements to come to work.
Some airlines *might* require all employees to get vaccinated, that's going to depend on corporate culture, and the business and legal landscape. They *can* legally do so, once vaccines have regular FDA approval. If they start getting sued left and right by customers and employees who get covid from other employees, and the fed just lets it happen, that's going to drive mandatory vaccination. Some airlines are already advocating mandatory vaccination, and at least one has said they will not mandate it.
If circumstances mandate that airline workers need to be vaccinated, I'm cool with that. And I don't think airlines should pay people who CHOOSE not to meet the minimum requirements to come to work.
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