Will airlines force employees get vaccine??
02-04-2021, 05:54 PM
#351
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,382
This article pretty much said what I said, this will not be successful because you will leave a lot of people out of being able to participate in everyday things. There has to be other options or there will be problems. I guess testing will be the alternative at least for now.
02-04-2021, 06:00 PM
#352
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: Gummed
Posts: 1,060
The US government will not (and probably has no legal basis to) mandate vaccines for anyone who's not in the mil. Politically that would never fly, and I agree that's a bit autocratic. After all, it's your body as they like to say.
But legal precedent exists to *require* vaccination as a condition for participation in certain activities (schools, daycare, certain jobs) if it's addressing a specific hazard (or an employment requirement such as entry into foriegn counties). An employer cannot require a a vaccine as a condition of employment for purposes of improving absenteeism (any more than they can require mandatory PT at 0600 every morning, although I'd be OK with that personally). A vaccine would need regular, not EUA, approval before an employer could do that.
There's also no reason you couldn't require vaccination for entry into a bar, theater, or restaurant since there is a potential hazard to other people if you're eating and drinking without a mask. Grocery stores, probably not since they've officially establsihed that masks and Social D prevent covid and you don't linger for hours.
Schools and employers will likely require real proof of vaccination, which is looking to involve digital verification. But small businesses will just want to CYA and comply with code, so I'm sure you can print a fake vaccination cert off the internet and use it to get into your local bar.
Requiring a vaccine for certain activities is not "mandatory" vaccination. You just have to weigh your priorities, there is such a thing as zoom jobs right now and that's likely to continue post-pandemic.
But you already know what I'm going to say about airline pilots, so I won't bother.
But legal precedent exists to *require* vaccination as a condition for participation in certain activities (schools, daycare, certain jobs) if it's addressing a specific hazard (or an employment requirement such as entry into foriegn counties). An employer cannot require a a vaccine as a condition of employment for purposes of improving absenteeism (any more than they can require mandatory PT at 0600 every morning, although I'd be OK with that personally). A vaccine would need regular, not EUA, approval before an employer could do that.
There's also no reason you couldn't require vaccination for entry into a bar, theater, or restaurant since there is a potential hazard to other people if you're eating and drinking without a mask. Grocery stores, probably not since they've officially establsihed that masks and Social D prevent covid and you don't linger for hours.
Schools and employers will likely require real proof of vaccination, which is looking to involve digital verification. But small businesses will just want to CYA and comply with code, so I'm sure you can print a fake vaccination cert off the internet and use it to get into your local bar.
Requiring a vaccine for certain activities is not "mandatory" vaccination. You just have to weigh your priorities, there is such a thing as zoom jobs right now and that's likely to continue post-pandemic.
But you already know what I'm going to say about airline pilots, so I won't bother.
As far as military, that is false too. See Doe #1 vs Rumsfeld.
This won't be mandated here in this country until it falls outside the EUA. That is going to take sometime. Probably beyond the half life of this cold bug that the world stopped for.
Other countries - yeah, they can mandate it for travelers. So what. Fly domestic. Oh yeah individual states can't mandate it either. See what my lawyer friend wrote. So the worry about NY mandating a vax when FL doesn't won't be an issue only until the EUA expires.
I guess we'll see soon enough?
02-04-2021, 06:28 PM
#353
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,382
They can't Rick. EUA prevents it. As soon as someone takes it to court - boom - bobs your uncle and that ends it. They want to mandate it, they talk about it, but they know legally they can't. Private entities can't mandate under the EUA.
As far as military, that is false too. See Doe #1 vs Rumsfeld.
This won't be mandated here in this country until it falls outside the EUA. That is going to take sometime. Probably beyond the half life of this cold bug that the world stopped for.
Other countries - yeah, they can mandate it for travelers. So what. Fly domestic. Oh yeah individual states can't mandate it either. See what my lawyer friend wrote. So the worry about NY mandating a vax when FL doesn't won't be an issue only until the EUA expires.
I guess we'll see soon enough?
As far as military, that is false too. See Doe #1 vs Rumsfeld.
This won't be mandated here in this country until it falls outside the EUA. That is going to take sometime. Probably beyond the half life of this cold bug that the world stopped for.
Other countries - yeah, they can mandate it for travelers. So what. Fly domestic. Oh yeah individual states can't mandate it either. See what my lawyer friend wrote. So the worry about NY mandating a vax when FL doesn't won't be an issue only until the EUA expires.
I guess we'll see soon enough?
I've joked about HI mandating it, thinking they're separate country, but they are not and they cannot.
02-04-2021, 07:16 PM
#354
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,495
"These vaccines won't be EUA only forever."
OK, I'll expand.
Title of the thread "will airlines force employees get vaccine??". Nothing there with an expiration date. Nothing there conditional. They can't right now because all the vaccines are currently EUA. We ALL get that. No reason to drag on about THAT detail. But they won't be EUA only forever. Discussions like that's the reality is pointless. At some point, probably sooner than some think, they'll get the normal standard approval. Under THOSE rules... that's where we discuss if the airlines will force employees get vaccine.
OK, I'll expand.
Title of the thread "will airlines force employees get vaccine??". Nothing there with an expiration date. Nothing there conditional. They can't right now because all the vaccines are currently EUA. We ALL get that. No reason to drag on about THAT detail. But they won't be EUA only forever. Discussions like that's the reality is pointless. At some point, probably sooner than some think, they'll get the normal standard approval. Under THOSE rules... that's where we discuss if the airlines will force employees get vaccine.
02-04-2021, 08:23 PM
#355
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,725
They can't Rick. EUA prevents it. As soon as someone takes it to court - boom - bobs your uncle and that ends it. They want to mandate it, they talk about it, but they know legally they can't. Private entities can't mandate under the EUA.
As far as military, that is false too. See Doe #1 vs Rumsfeld.
This won't be mandated here in this country until it falls outside the EUA. That is going to take sometime. Probably beyond the half life of this cold bug that the world stopped for.
Other countries - yeah, they can mandate it for travelers. So what. Fly domestic. Oh yeah individual states can't mandate it either. See what my lawyer friend wrote. So the worry about NY mandating a vax when FL doesn't won't be an issue only until the EUA expires.
I guess we'll see soon enough?
As far as military, that is false too. See Doe #1 vs Rumsfeld.
This won't be mandated here in this country until it falls outside the EUA. That is going to take sometime. Probably beyond the half life of this cold bug that the world stopped for.
Other countries - yeah, they can mandate it for travelers. So what. Fly domestic. Oh yeah individual states can't mandate it either. See what my lawyer friend wrote. So the worry about NY mandating a vax when FL doesn't won't be an issue only until the EUA expires.
I guess we'll see soon enough?
02-05-2021, 04:53 AM
#356
Gets Weekdays Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Economy Minus
Posts: 1,053
Irrational fear, social media, and bored soccer Karen all trump rule of law.
02-05-2021, 07:03 AM
#357
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 233
Lots of downward trends going on here. I suspect herd immunity is happening faster than they thought even without the vaccine. All these requirements could soon become moot.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/31/us/coronavirus-cases-hospitalizations-decreasing.html
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/31/us/coronavirus-cases-hospitalizations-decreasing.html
02-05-2021, 05:16 PM
#359
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: Student of the game
Posts: 1,026
Lots of downward trends going on here. I suspect herd immunity is happening faster than they thought even without the vaccine. All these requirements could soon become moot.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ecreasing.html
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ecreasing.html
02-06-2021, 03:57 PM
#360
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,556
Will airlines force employees get vaccine??
Why?
CDC say there has been 27 mil official cases. They also say the actual case count is 6-8x’s that number.
That’s 162 million on the low end. Plus 40 mil vaccinations.
200 mil. That’s 60% of the population. We are getting close.
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