150,000 Americans Dead
08-13-2020, 02:09 PM
#251
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,030
Because some of the facial coverings being used are actually WORSE than wearing no mask at all:
https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus...-suggests.html
So please spare me the holier-than-thou attitude. This isn't about wearing a mask, a REAL surgical or N95 mask, when inside a Costco or some other crowded venue. There is some positive effect in those situations.
The point was, wearing a face covering when outside, by yourself, is of zero value to anybody and wearing a face covering while inside a vehicle, by yourself, is just flat stupid. All the "good intentions" in the world don't change those facts.
https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus...-suggests.html
So please spare me the holier-than-thou attitude. This isn't about wearing a mask, a REAL surgical or N95 mask, when inside a Costco or some other crowded venue. There is some positive effect in those situations.
The point was, wearing a face covering when outside, by yourself, is of zero value to anybody and wearing a face covering while inside a vehicle, by yourself, is just flat stupid. All the "good intentions" in the world don't change those facts.
08-13-2020, 02:26 PM
#252
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Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 644
And once again, had the CDC not LIED about the value of masks in the early days in an attempt to conserve the “good” masks for healthcare workers, they would be having less trouble now in getting across the value of them now.
You never get a second chance to make a first impression.
You never get a second chance to make a first impression.
I'd bet almost anything we'd see a huge rise in GDP and TSA numbers if face mask policies were enforced as aggressively as speed limits. You may hate the idea, but you know it's true. People would be a lot better about wearing masks and it'd get a lot more people out of their houses.
08-13-2020, 03:18 PM
#253
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,240
I get it. The CDC was a bush league mess, especially early. Everybody made mistakes early on though: Trump, the GOP, the Dems, the CDC, the WHO, all the Governors, doctors, health officials, etc, etc. But it has been 7 months and it's becoming clear what works and what doesn't, and the countries/states that are doing well aren't doing well by accident. You can't hold grudges in these things, especially if the ideas work.
I'd bet almost anything we'd see a huge rise in GDP and TSA numbers if face mask policies were enforced as aggressively as speed limits. You may hate the idea, but you know it's true. People would be a lot better about wearing masks and it'd get a lot more people out of their houses.
I'd bet almost anything we'd see a huge rise in GDP and TSA numbers if face mask policies were enforced as aggressively as speed limits. You may hate the idea, but you know it's true. People would be a lot better about wearing masks and it'd get a lot more people out of their houses.
And while I realize you can’t unscramble the egg, knowingly lying to people about something like this, especially when it’s inevitable you are going to get caught, cost credibility, and credibility is the coin most dear to the public health/preventive medicine establishment. Because there will NEVER be enough cops to enforce mask Or vaccination mandates, or courts to try the scofflaws. You truly do need to win the hearts and minds.
The guy who approved telling that lie lost credibility for the whole public health establishment and that HAS and WILL cost lives, both from people who don’t wear masks now that because of it, and because every anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorists was given a talking point for why they shouldn’t believe what the CDC says.
The damage isn’t over - it’s ongoing - and the guy who made that stupid decision hasn’t been punished for it. He or she probably killed more Americans with that one lie than Timothy McVeigh did with his ANFO. There ought to be accountability. You can’t just say, mistakes were made...
08-13-2020, 04:22 PM
#254
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 627
The damage isn’t over - it’s ongoing - and the guy who made that stupid decision hasn’t been punished for it. He or she probably killed more Americans with that one lie than Timothy McVeigh did with his ANFO. There ought to be accountability. You can’t just say, mistakes were made...
08-13-2020, 04:48 PM
#255
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 644
Who says I hate the idea? I was an early advocate of using masks, if for no other reason than to decrease your own personal inoculum if you are exposed. Even if you get more than a minimal infective dose, a SMALL amount more than a minimum infective dose is a LOT better than getting a LOT more than a minimum effective dose.
And while I realize you can’t unscramble the egg, knowingly lying to people about something like this, especially when it’s inevitable you are going to get caught, cost credibility, and credibility is the coin most dear to the public health/preventive medicine establishment. Because there will NEVER be enough cops to enforce mask Or vaccination mandates, or courts to try the scofflaws. You truly do need to win the hearts and minds.
The guy who approved telling that lie lost credibility for the whole public health establishment and that HAS and WILL cost lives, both from people who don’t wear masks now that because of it, and because every anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorists was given a talking point for why they shouldn’t believe what the CDC says.
The damage isn’t over - it’s ongoing - and the guy who made that stupid decision hasn’t been punished for it. He or she probably killed more Americans with that one lie than Timothy McVeigh did with his ANFO. There ought to be accountability. You can’t just say, mistakes were made...
And while I realize you can’t unscramble the egg, knowingly lying to people about something like this, especially when it’s inevitable you are going to get caught, cost credibility, and credibility is the coin most dear to the public health/preventive medicine establishment. Because there will NEVER be enough cops to enforce mask Or vaccination mandates, or courts to try the scofflaws. You truly do need to win the hearts and minds.
The guy who approved telling that lie lost credibility for the whole public health establishment and that HAS and WILL cost lives, both from people who don’t wear masks now that because of it, and because every anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorists was given a talking point for why they shouldn’t believe what the CDC says.
The damage isn’t over - it’s ongoing - and the guy who made that stupid decision hasn’t been punished for it. He or she probably killed more Americans with that one lie than Timothy McVeigh did with his ANFO. There ought to be accountability. You can’t just say, mistakes were made...
08-14-2020, 04:29 PM
#257
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,938
Even if there is a regime change, you're not gonna stop Covid deaths.
It seems America in general thinks that once a vaccine is out and we all take it, Covid will go away and we go back to normal. That just ain't gonna happen.
1. 1/3 Americans have already said they ain't gonna take a vaccine.
2. the FDA has said they'll approve a vaccine even at 50% effective rate.
3. The fastest vaccine before this took 4 yrs to get out there. This one we're pushing under 1 year. Who knows how effective it's gonna be?
So only 2/3 Americans take the vaccine and say the vaccine is 50% effective, what percent of Americans are actually going to be effective against Covid? And lets say best case 80-90% effectiveness with only 2/3 Americans taking it, you still have 50% or so of the country not shielded from the virus.
Bottom line, we're hosed. No matter what.
It seems America in general thinks that once a vaccine is out and we all take it, Covid will go away and we go back to normal. That just ain't gonna happen.
1. 1/3 Americans have already said they ain't gonna take a vaccine.
2. the FDA has said they'll approve a vaccine even at 50% effective rate.
3. The fastest vaccine before this took 4 yrs to get out there. This one we're pushing under 1 year. Who knows how effective it's gonna be?
So only 2/3 Americans take the vaccine and say the vaccine is 50% effective, what percent of Americans are actually going to be effective against Covid? And lets say best case 80-90% effectiveness with only 2/3 Americans taking it, you still have 50% or so of the country not shielded from the virus.
Bottom line, we're hosed. No matter what.
08-14-2020, 04:48 PM
#258
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 627
Even if there is a regime change, you're not gonna stop Covid deaths.
It seems America in general thinks that once a vaccine is out and we all take it, Covid will go away and we go back to normal. That just ain't gonna happen.
1. 1/3 Americans have already said they ain't gonna take a vaccine.
2. the FDA has said they'll approve a vaccine even at 50% effective rate.
3. The fastest vaccine before this took 4 yrs to get out there. This one we're pushing under 1 year. Who knows how effective it's gonna be?
So only 2/3 Americans take the vaccine and say the vaccine is 50% effective, what percent of Americans are actually going to be effective against Covid? And lets say best case 80-90% effectiveness with only 2/3 Americans taking it, you still have 50% or so of the country not shielded from the virus.
Bottom line, we're hosed. No matter what.
It seems America in general thinks that once a vaccine is out and we all take it, Covid will go away and we go back to normal. That just ain't gonna happen.
1. 1/3 Americans have already said they ain't gonna take a vaccine.
2. the FDA has said they'll approve a vaccine even at 50% effective rate.
3. The fastest vaccine before this took 4 yrs to get out there. This one we're pushing under 1 year. Who knows how effective it's gonna be?
So only 2/3 Americans take the vaccine and say the vaccine is 50% effective, what percent of Americans are actually going to be effective against Covid? And lets say best case 80-90% effectiveness with only 2/3 Americans taking it, you still have 50% or so of the country not shielded from the virus.
Bottom line, we're hosed. No matter what.
All of your statements are 100% speculation. Yes 1/3rd of Americans have said in a recent poll that they won't take a vaccine. I think that number will come down if we actually had some cohesive leadership and once the vaccine has a proven track record. The speculation about 50% efficacy was a minimum requirement, not what's coming. We don't know its effectiveness yet, but early indications is that it's working. The vaccines are on track to finish phase 3 trials this fall and be ready for the masses by Q1 '21. So I don't know where that 4 year mark is coming from.
But you're right. The deaths are gonna keep on coming. Some models are predicting 400,000 US dead by February. Winter + COVID + Flu = A bad time.
Accountability is about hold those responsible to account. Not immediately fixing their messes.
08-14-2020, 05:15 PM
#259
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 211
I'll throw in another statistic:
All of your statements are 100% speculation. Yes 1/3rd of Americans have said in a recent poll that they won't take a vaccine. I think that number will come down if we actually had some cohesive leadership and once the vaccine has a proven track record. The speculation about 50% efficacy was a minimum requirement, not what's coming. We don't know its effectiveness yet, but early indications is that it's working. The vaccines are on track to finish phase 3 trials this fall and be ready for the masses by Q1 '21. So I don't know where that 4 year mark is coming from.
But you're right. The deaths are gonna keep on coming. Some models are predicting 400,000 US dead by February. Winter + COVID + Flu = A bad time.
Accountability is about hold those responsible to account. Not immediately fixing their messes.
All of your statements are 100% speculation. Yes 1/3rd of Americans have said in a recent poll that they won't take a vaccine. I think that number will come down if we actually had some cohesive leadership and once the vaccine has a proven track record. The speculation about 50% efficacy was a minimum requirement, not what's coming. We don't know its effectiveness yet, but early indications is that it's working. The vaccines are on track to finish phase 3 trials this fall and be ready for the masses by Q1 '21. So I don't know where that 4 year mark is coming from.
But you're right. The deaths are gonna keep on coming. Some models are predicting 400,000 US dead by February. Winter + COVID + Flu = A bad time.
Accountability is about hold those responsible to account. Not immediately fixing their messes.
08-14-2020, 05:34 PM
#260
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 644
That's this episode, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF7UKfPg6xo
Good old school Simpson's reference. Matt Groening is a prophet.
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