how to handle ? Fatigue scenario/bosses
#11
Capt Bob and FO Steve the only two company pilots...for two airplanes?
Why the burning need to get the airplane out of maintenance NOW?
Why was this not coordinated prior to jumping off on a three week tour?
Why not use contract pilots?
Short answer to the situation as presented: use the parking brake and be prepared to be shown the door, and even if not, look for another job ASAP because the "boss" doesn't know dick about leadership.
#12
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
Not sure I understand the scenario. Sure, a long trip, but how long is the flight out in jet#2 and what time, body clock? Obviously, there is sometimes a difference between a suck schedule and fatigue.
Safety is safety; but one of the quickest ways to get fired (and a bad rep, this is a small industry) is to claim "safety of flight" when you are looking for leverage to renegotiate a bad gig.
Fatigue is not as easy to manage as operators, the FAA, or even unions believe. A 16 hour break in the middle of the day while construction crews jackhammer, hotel staff slam doors and scream HOUSEKEEPING! is not restful, although the regs say it should be. Last week I had a terrific 24 hour layover in Vegas with the American Country Music Awards, Concert for a Cause (three days worth) outside my hotel room window. Fun, but not restful.
The people who can afford corporate jets (and now I'm almost in that camp myself) tend to be two types. Some are smart, nice, people who through frugality, common sense and hard work have done well. Others are simply psychopaths who win by being more ruthless than anyone else. Fortunately the approach to both (who do work hard and work through fatigue) is to simply say, I need a break.
IMHO it goes over better than trying to force the situation (and a forced 10 hours of rest isn't as quality as 7 hours of normal sleep ... I know I don't sleep well f I'm worried about work).
As "Boiler Up" says, there are plenty of jobs out there right now. In fact, it might be worth mentioning to the boss that he's going to have a difficult time staffing the operation like this. I used to work for some psychopaths, but they understood the market. They knew replacing me would cost money and they understood my pricing my services to other operators if they were not competitive (with pay & time off).
Safety is safety; but one of the quickest ways to get fired (and a bad rep, this is a small industry) is to claim "safety of flight" when you are looking for leverage to renegotiate a bad gig.
Fatigue is not as easy to manage as operators, the FAA, or even unions believe. A 16 hour break in the middle of the day while construction crews jackhammer, hotel staff slam doors and scream HOUSEKEEPING! is not restful, although the regs say it should be. Last week I had a terrific 24 hour layover in Vegas with the American Country Music Awards, Concert for a Cause (three days worth) outside my hotel room window. Fun, but not restful.
The people who can afford corporate jets (and now I'm almost in that camp myself) tend to be two types. Some are smart, nice, people who through frugality, common sense and hard work have done well. Others are simply psychopaths who win by being more ruthless than anyone else. Fortunately the approach to both (who do work hard and work through fatigue) is to simply say, I need a break.
IMHO it goes over better than trying to force the situation (and a forced 10 hours of rest isn't as quality as 7 hours of normal sleep ... I know I don't sleep well f I'm worried about work).
As "Boiler Up" says, there are plenty of jobs out there right now. In fact, it might be worth mentioning to the boss that he's going to have a difficult time staffing the operation like this. I used to work for some psychopaths, but they understood the market. They knew replacing me would cost money and they understood my pricing my services to other operators if they were not competitive (with pay & time off).
#13
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 23
After having caused the delay in the departure time from LAX which led to the after dark approach in the first place.
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