The dude

I'd say "real" 121 flying is somebody who did it for long enough to have a solid understanding of their company procedures and long enough to know their airplane inside and out.

mia389

I prefer to fly with ex 121 guys. I think they take SOPs a bit more serious. Of course I am generalizing but I agree with your quote. I feel the CRM is a bit more there as well.

You are the customer at FSI and CAE. Its a lot less stress than going through a 121 course. Your not in fear of your job as well. Really your paying for your type or recurrent.

billythekid

I don't see the 121 training being that much better than 91. It's all aqp style, train to proficiency. Being the customer isn't much different than being a pilot who will get an extra session or bring in the union training committee. Id take a v1 cut in a 777 over a lr60 any day of the week. How many people are genuinely failing at training these days in either sector? 5% may be way high. If the corporate pilot goes in and tells his boss he failed training, I'd bet the repercussions will be a little more felt than the airline pilot who gets a retest or two with a training review board.

ClarenceOver

I know for a fact CAE gives guys lots of chances. Being a right seater i have seen it first hand.

quimby

Not all airlines have AQP.

HercDriver130

And NOT all AQP is apples to apples.....we have AQP at my 121 Supp carrier and there is plenty of jeopardy to be had at every turn.

ThreeGreens

If your 91 then you get to saunter out of class when its over while the rest of us 135 knuckle draggers get to a checkride. At a 121 carrier they take what they want you to know out of the AFM and make a handy dandy POM and study guide for you to learn. They dont want you to know too much, just enough to get from a to b as safely as possible. At a 91/135 operator they give you the AFM and PTM to learn, which is a lot more daunting. What I miss most about flying at the airlines is good old standardization, everyone does the same thing. The checklists are spelled out, duties are defined, it makes everything operate like a well oiled machine. Everything is scripted. When I first made the switch it was tough because some folks were doing things willy nilly which drove me nuts. This is not the General Lee, not sliding across the hood speeding off to the boars nest to hang out with uncle jesse. They probably think i am a checklist Nazi. You have to fly with the same folks over and over and over. The great thing about 121 is you are almost always with someone different ( thank you- no fly list). With 121 flying you fly so much you get into a rhythm which is nice because you get comfortable in the plane, you know it from the rooter to the tooter. Not so much the other way. I think planning is a lot more involved as the others have said above. You fly to so many different places, have to be careful. No dispatcher to back you up. No braking action reports on a snowy day in cornville, no raim in BFE on a ifr day, everybody is going to rifle because the wx sux in ase, be ready for a long line, " well that shore is a fancee lav you got der sir...cant service it..sorry". I dont miss being number 27 in line launching off of 8R, waiting for 3 hours for a slot to fly 130 nm and the whole olympic sport of commuting. But, the planes are nice and the performance will blow the doors off of any airliner out there. Money is good and we are treated well. Im getting used to it. As always results may vary, good luck.

aafurloughee

I have done both, 121 for 7 years now back to legacy and corporate for 12. I went back to legacy mainly because the corporate gig I had wasn't stable. I have had great corporate gigs, and crap ones. Part of my problem was my mid-west geographical location. I didn't want to move so kept sacrificing my career so my family could stay in same house. The toys are the first to go. Albeit once you're in the corporate world, and you're a good guy, you'll find work again as I did, but odds are unless you're in a high density corporate area like NE, South FL, or Southern Cali, you are going to have to move. Not many corporate gigs last. Many of ex chief pilots and directors of aviation I have worked with that had their flight depts shut down. So I took the recall, sitting at the bottom, on reserve. Short term lost for what I hope to be long term gain. It's more predictable and I will be able to have some control of my schedule. As everyone has said, It,s all about whether or not you have a great client. Client good life good, client bad life bad. Figure out first how much the client wants and can afford the plane. Then how old is he? Not sure I would give up a legacy slot unless I was older than 57, and was very junior, and of course the right 91 gig came along. G
Good Luck.
I would also have to second 121 training,s parameters are much tighter. I loved training with my flight safety peeps!! I'll miss them.

billythekid

I've heard this many times.....and I think it has to do with timing more than anything. From oct 2001 to probably 2007 (when a few majors started to hire), a lot of major pilots had been laid off and not recalled so corporations may have been reluctant to hire them. Granted, a lot of those guys had friends that could help them out (perhaps old, pre2001 military/previous job friends). The good corporate jobs were super tough to get, so those doing the hiring could easily make a statement that they wouldn't hire major pilots since they had plenty of well-proven, perhaps typed pilots to hire.
I don't think former 121 (in the corporate world) has the same meaning/image now as it did then.... But it's more of a function of pilot availability.

flysocal77

My background is flight instructing then 135. Been flying 135 for 10 years. King Air, westwind, now G200. I think 135 is bottom of the barrel right there with a regional job. Just like a regional it's a stepping stone. Some stick around and make a career of it and that's cool I'm not trying to belittle anyone.

The 3 135 companies I've worked for are management companies. They owned a couple of airplanes but their main service is managing individual or corporate aircraft for a fee and chartering it when the owner doesn't need it. This formula usually includes a lean pilot group because cost is a key factor. The norm seems to be 2 pilots per airplane. There is pressure on the pilots to fly all trips and are expected to take vacation when the airplane is down for MX. Very standard in the 135 (management company) world.

The benefits of working for this type of 135 company would be good quality of life on the road. Good food, nice hotels, nice destinations, interesting flying.

The negatives would be the fact that you are basically a glorified well treated and well paid slave and the schedule (ha) is ever changing. It can be difficult if you have family back home and can't guarantee when you will be home.

This can be a great way for a younger guy/gal to gain experience but I don't see it as a long term career for a family man.

Yes there are some great 91 jobs out there but the good jobs are held onto by dear life by the pilots so the reality is, if you want to enter the arena you will start at the bottom into a less desirable gig.

The lifer 135 guys that I've flown with have all been turned down by a legacy at some point. The consensus is, the best jobs in the industry are at the majors. I've had the opportunity to network in the corporate world and decided that rather than take a nice 91 job I'm heading to the airlines. I'm pretty sure I'm making the right decision.