Cubdriver

There is some merit to the idea that a solid working relationship can outweigh a deficiency in general qualification for almost any job assuming the applicant meets the basic mins to get hired in the first place. Which of us hasn't seen a boss's pet who is practically given the keys to the ship by merit of the trust they maintain. Maybe this is as it should be, the synergy of a compatible group is so much more than that of a snotty one. The problem is getting hired with such low qualifications, and of course you do not "know" you are going to fit in, either.

ImperialxRat

Honestly, for those of you who thought people were 'hating', I think you need to develop some thicker skin. This is aviation, and the internet... intentions and tones can be difficult to discern. Some people shoot straight from the hip, and some people sugar coat it.

As a low time guy who came here for advice, you should take each post and consider it thoughtfully before you snap back all defensively.

Is it possible to go corporate with your time? Yes. Is it likely? Absolutely not. You stated you don't want to instruct... so pick a more realistic short term goal, while having corporate as your long term goal. Banner tow, safety pilot, pipeline, traffic watch, aerial photography, aerial survey, agriculture, fish spotting, fire watch, etc. Don't develop tunnel vision on "corporate".

Also, just a side note, but if your reason for going corporate is to not fly to the same 30 airports, then that is the wrong route to go. You may be seeking charter for diverse flying. An example is a friend of mine in Texas who flew a light twin for a company for 3 years. I think he probably went to 10 different airports total.

Anyway, good luck on the adventure that is aviation! Remember... thick skin, and grain of salt.

wmuflyboy

Im cool as a cucumber. But you are telling him to go to the airlines to 'time build'? Really?

paladin

Broke, they're are some real jerks that post on this board but also there is some good advice as well. Cub and the Marine are just a couple who usually have good things to say.

My advice is to recalibrate your priorities. The skills one learns while instructing are invaluable because a huge part of flying professionally is teaching. You may find yourself one day as a Captain explaining some new procedure to a new First Officer. Or a First Officer explaining something new to a Captain, they don’t always know everything either. Even if you're not flying as a CFI, you're instructing when you assist another crew-member in programing a route into the FMS, or explaining the finer points of an aircraft to a fellow aviator/friend that may be new to the airplane.

Flight instructing is not only a good way to develop and refine your CRM and communication skills, but also is a solid way to build time and fortify the foundation that is required to become a professional aviator. The skills that are acquired while training students solidify your knowledge base and will make you more qualified, enabling you to "move on" to another job. But it is a mistake to take the attitude that instructing as being merely a stepping stone to greener pastures. It should be thought of as a great step towards becoming a more knowledgeable and professional pilot.

Remember, the many lessons you learn early in your career from your students can be great experience. The knowledge demands of obtaining a commercial ticket with instrument and multi-engine rating are only the bare minimums to become a professional pilot. A person will have a better understanding of the basics of flying in his first hundred or two hours of instructing than he had learned up until he received his CFI. You will not realize your lack of understanding the fundamentals until having to coherently explain them to someone else.

RJSAviator76

Broke... that's a fine goal you have, but the truth is, you need flight time. Furthermore, do you want to be stuck as an SIC forever? Corporate gigs don't fly nearly as much as say airlines, yet the insurance companies mandate flight time and experience to be a PIC. To you, that means better money and eventually changing your handle from brokeasdope to studjetjock...

How do you do it? You say you're not into the whole instruction thing... fair enough. The question is if you can deliver a product and be fair to your student. If the answer is yes, then you just may need to enjoy a nice cup of suck-it-up and just do it as it's the path of least resistance. If you CANNOT deliver proper instruction and customer/client service to the student, then you have bigger problems which may haunt you as corporate side of the house focuses on customer service before flying.

Now, don't despair, there are other ways...

I didn't instruct. Instead, I flew skydivers and air tours and then freight to get my time. You may need to be flexible as far as where you live to build your time, especially if you're shooting for non-CFI route. Look at dropzone.com for ads. VFR Part 135 may also be an option for you - look up King Airelines (yes, that's how they spell it), and other Canyon operators flying C-207's - you'll eventually progress into twins there. There's a place in Hawaii in Kona and Hilo where you'll do CFI and air tours as well...

List the requirements for ATP and start working towards those... create checkboxes as you accomplish each requirement, and then you work towards meeting those goals. I did that for Part 135 VFR, IFR, and subsequently ATP.

Someone mentioned you need thick skin in this business, and they're right. In business aviation, the people we fly in the back are usually Type A personalities - some are *********s; some are the nicest people in the world but firm and know what they want. Same with people up front, and possibly even more so. You're gonna run into your share of pilots with small penis syndrome (SPS).. you know the kind... little Napoleons, big fish in small ponds, people who think everyone else is an idiot, talk sh*t about everyone else... hell, just read this board to give you an idea.

Bottom line, with your flight time, it's unlikely, but not impossible, that you'll get into a bizav gig RIGHT NOW. To improve your odds, either suck it up and instruct, or start looking for other time-building gigs to get flight time, and don't rule out regional airlines either, especially once you meet their minimums.

Hope this helps... good luck!

billythekid

Yep, you need flight time and probably shouldn't worry about flying right seat in a King Air or Citation quite yet. You'd spend 10 years building time to be left seat on it, whereas you could spend 2 years doing forestry, pipeline, traffic, banner, with sometime multi occassionally etc and then upgrade to captain in a year or so on a KingAir/small jet. May want to work in line service as well once a week if that's really the game you want to play.
Do that, get a new screen name, and come back and ask for advice.
Then be willing to move.

ce650

WOW! Just reading your posts (brokedope) I wouldnt hire you.

You seem to have an attitude issue and could be a problem fitting into a small department

The dude

I think what the original poster can take from these responses is that there is no "magic recipe" for landing the job you want.

Ultimately I think it comes down to having the drive and fortitude to keep going as long as it takes to get there. Some people find their break earlier than others do. You just have to be able to keep your head up year after year, keep flying, and better your position when you can. Don't get a p!ssed off attitude if it takes five years because there's guaranteed to be another guy out there who's been trying for ten. There are guys out there who have been furloughed three times (or whatever) and had to pay dues over and over again.

Broke, if you truly enjoy flying and want to make a career out of it then make the best of whatever cockpit you find yourself in. If you have a good attitude and fly in a professional manner, eventually your break will come. Take it from me, however, that there are very few guys in a great corporate job that haven't had to crawl through their share of Sh!t to get there...

Good luck

n20junkie

I was instructing and turning wrenches as an A&P. Granted I had military experiance, but I was hired to fly a columbia and a year later I was in Brazil picking up a brand new Phenom.

Instructing is a way to get your foot in the door. If you treat it as an hour building exercise you will fail like all the others that have had the same mindset.

Your interaction with people that can affort to fly, will open doors. I still do BFR's just to maintain connections.