usmc-sgt

Now that you have described me (minus a few thousand hours) when can I start?!

ce650

660 TT is prob not going to get you in to 135 jets with ARGUS and Weyvren mins these days. If I were you I would find a local 91 corp with a king air and make friends.

Sky Butler

I had to log in for this one. First of all, ARG/US -Wyvern Wingman programs are a leech on the aviation community. All those companies do, is give the customer and insurance companies a warm and fuzzy feeling about the flight crews. And then they get their hands in the middle of the money somehow. Here’s a good example of why they are crap… When someone books a flight with a ARG/US or Wyvern certified charter company, there’s no telling if that company doesn’t broker out the job to a non- certified operator. So much for the cert. Also Who cares anyway. A company may have their best “platinum” rating, but then they tank a jet in a field. OK. Thanks for that.
I think 1000 hours is an awful lot for a King Air. I started flying one with under 250 and a while ago I was told 2000 min to touch a jet under a Wyvern program. So the short answer is .. It depends on the Operator.

PW305

Skybutler,
You're right on, those programs are far from an accurate representation of a companies true level of safety. When ARG/US started charging (operators) we made a big stink and dropped their service. The costs associated with their business should not be paid by operators, as it taints the whole program.

In the subsequent months we lost a handful of trips because we weren't ARG/US rated. We ended up renewing with them before the summer.

There are platinum operators who've had fatal accidents. Global Exec Aviation from the LR60, Travis Barker crash are already Gold rated again!

TransMach

QUOTE

In the subsequent months we lost a handful of trips because we weren't ARG/US rated. We ended up renewing with them before the summer.

There are platinum operators who've had fatal accidents. Global Exec Aviation from the LR60, Travis Barker

ENDQUOTE

Absolutely the truth. Avjet crashed the snott out of a GIII in Aspen, killed all occupants and maintained their ARG/US rating. What's up with that?

TM

OldManReverend

green paper is an interesting creation.

BushwickBill

I was hired into a 525 citation at 600 hours as an SIC part 91. Of course this was a who you know situation I was lucky.

For 135 SIC 500 series citation I was with a company for over 2 years before I could watch a captain fly and be the ice and coffee ho. I had my ATP and the 525 rating. The type didn't apply for the 500 in terms of logging time but must have helped with insurance requirements. I started with the company as a 91 copilot on a different airplane, another 525. Basically an insurance requirement for there to be someone sitting in the right seat of a 135 single pilot trip. I couldn't even log the time. However, it got my foot in the door.

Lears are a whole different story. It's not a citation in terms of stability and requires much higher time pilots. I wouldn't want to fly with an inexperienced captain in any Lear. I have a small amount of Lear 45 time so I'm not really qualified to say anything else. Hope that helps you.

Being a charter copilot is tough work. You could wind up flying with someone who doesn't let you fly and expects you to do all of the cleaning and other non flying duties. These days you will be lucky to find that kind of situation. I was lucky that there were options to look at from 2004 to 2007. Now things are bleak. If you work hard and learn you will be able to be a charter captain. It is still tough work.

FL450

With your time and experience try looking at some of the air ambulance operators in the midwest and west . Its great experience usually in some light turboprop such as a C90 B200 or in worst cases J32's. If you don't mind moving and spending at least a year with a company out side of your comfort zone Check out a company called AirMD out of kansas they fly C90's 135 dual crew and they hire guys with lower times. Pay for FO's is in the twenties so your usual regional pay scale but its salary and the health benefits are good. Best of luck my friend and like PW30.. said its all about your attitude and timing; Flight time is just a number!

Climbto450

The Argus/Wyvern ratings have very little to do with actual safety. They have much more to do with record keeping and B.S. slinging. I have seen horrible operations get these ratings. Pacific Jet (who broke every rule in the book) was Argus approved. As for Global Exec and Avjet they are actually both top notch organizations (in my opinion), I know the chief pilots and the owners of Global Exec and Avjet., Global is run by pilots and in my opinion has beat down any myths that pilots can't run companies and Avjet has been setting the safety standard in charter for almost 30 years. Unfortunately, when we hire in the Part 135 world we have to rely on pilots experience and training from other operators which sometimes may not be all that great. The Captain of the Avjet aircraft had crashed two other aircraft in his carrier(this wasn't discovered until after the fatal ASE crash) but thanks to good lawyers he had a clean record when he got the job at Avjet, that isn’t Avjet’s fault that the Captain had a protected history of bad decision making skills.

EricMercury

Some of you have not a clue as to what and why programs like ARG/US exist. To say they are "feel good" programs for customers miss the mark by a mile.

These types of certification programs ( started by the aircraft insurance industry ) don't necessarily yank certifications after every accident / incident. It's not a numbers game. Systemic problems in training, management and operations to name a few, is what will get a rating reduced or revoked. At least that's the way it's supposed to work, and largely does with few exceptions. Rogue operators won't have that platinum or even gold rating for long, if at all.

High profile carriers like Avjet out of KBUR flying a G550 or a Boeing Business Jet BBJ have proven over a considerable period of time that they have all the elements in place to have earned their safety certifications. Notwithstanding the single tragic accident like the one that occured on a snowy night in ASE almost 10 years ago. The actions of that flight crew were in direct violation of virtually every paragraph in their FSM.

Some on here believe if they can't bash a certain carrier, then they'll just bash the certification process in which the carrier they wish to attack is an elite member. They'd be wrong on both counts. I have seen the best of the best right along with the worst of the worst. The latter, which many of us have flown for, don't last long in this business.