detpilot

Ok guys, so I had an embarrassing first departure from Teterboro. We were leaving IFR, and runway 19 was in use. Clearance del. was asking everyone if they could accept some departure procedure (forget the name) that was not published in the FAA terminal procedures book. It seemed like everyone knew what it was (they were all accepting it), but we could not find it. The clearance delivery controller was pretty short with us, and suggested going into the FBO to get it (Not an option at this point because we already had the engine running). He also said we should look in the AFD, which made no mention of the procedure. We ended up giving up and departing VFR, quite upset at the lack of documentation of this procedure, as well as the controller's unwillingness to fill us in. As a professional pilot, how should I have known about this procedure, and where can I find info on it. I still can't find anything on it now that I'm home, and it's bugging me. And furthermore, how do I know that these kinds of unpublished procedures exist if it's not in the AFD or the Instrument approach book? It wasn't the Ruddy 2 or the Teterboro 6 departure. Thanks!

jelloy683

It's called the Dalton Departure Procedure...I had no clue about it either and was stuck on a ground hold for 20mins. I looked it up on line later, and it basically means you depart VFR and pick up your IFR clearance two mins after departure with ATC. I didnt want to accept it either since I had NO clue what it was.

MoonFallsDown

some airports has this kind of approach and arrivals...i have had this problem with going in and out of Sanford International in Orlando FL where they have an unpublished arrival and dep.

since i am not sure about the procedure at SFB ATCs down here are more than welcome to help you out... usually pilots who fly out of that airport knows know about it than visitors.

detpilot

Thanks for the help on the name, with that info I was able to look up some info on it (although all I could find was a flying magazine article about it, still no definitive procedure).

It does state that pilots must request it specifically, that didn't happen for us. He pretty much told us to do it, or wait.

The thing that ****ed me off the most was that the clearance delivery controller was not that busy (Ground and tower, however, were), and he was completely unwilling to fill us in on the procedure. I can see if it were a published procedure, but as of today (almost a week later), I STILL cannot find a definite procedure... You'd think if they were doing something that they knew was out of the ordinary, and not published (He said it was in the AFD, but we sure couldn't find it... if anyone has more info on that, please advise), they'd at least be willing to fill us in.

EXTW

Check the last page of this .pdf document. The Dalton Procedure has been in the Jepps in the past, but I don't have our current Jepps here at home so I can't check to see if it is still there. I don't know if it go dropped with the latest revision to the departures.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/noise/TEBnap2006.pdf

hawkesaurus

It's been a few years, but the Dalton departure used to be in our Jepps.

wrxpilot

Yeah, that one threw me for a curve the first time I saw it too. Fortunately the guy I was flying with that time knew about it. The procedure is in our Jepp database (Proline 21), but I have not been able to find it online in a hardcopy format from the feds. We can also get it on Jeppview.

USMCFLYR

What is the purpose of the 190 kts speed restriction on the departure? Is it based on a maximum turn radius to stay within the 4 nm arc (though they request it be done within 1 nm if possible)?

USMCFLYR

TPROP4ever

The Sanford one was a signatory departure/arrival put into place after the airport went to class C airspace. It was to ease the transition for tower and Orlando Approach with all the VFR dep and arr for the flight schools. It essentially kept clearance del. from having to issue a discreet squack just so you could depart airspace. It did help out in the begining. When it first was derived, you had to have your school sign a letter stating request to use it hence the name (signatory dep./arr. ), but they used to always ask if you were familiar with it, they never forced it on a transitory pilot, to my knowledge like what sounds like they were trying to do in NJ, to that pilot.

SenecaDriver

I'ts in the special notices section. Since they deal with "the big dogs" all day long, they expect youto be able to keep up. Remember 91.103.

Not saying you couldn't, just an observation.

I had the same thing happen to me this year not too long after the fatal crash in the Hudson. Luckly for me, I found the DP in the AFD. I had been in and out of there many times before, always IFR. So I was cought off guard when they told me to expect a delay for the TEB5(now 6) or follow the Dalton. The what?

But rather than launch into an unfamiluar DP, ask them to spell it out. Remember, You pay their salary. Tangling with a 75 on aproach to EWR (thats what the Dalton is for) would be much worse for your carrer.

You would think since they (faa) were saying the TEB controller played a roll in the hudson crash, they would be more forthcomming with info when they hear somone plead the 5th on the dalton

But ultimatly, if you want to run with the "big dogs" you have to be able to bark.