mau mau

Hello this is my first time I write on forum.
I write from Italy Europe and I would like to know some information and opinion from many of you as pilots and owners in different aeronautical realities.
Me and my associates are looking for best solution regarding corporate/air taxi and private flights. Our target, is flights from 250nm to 1000nm range and our "idea" is to make something like "low costs" private flights.
In italy now regarding air taxi and business flights, just to make an idea, the plane that fly more than all the others is a little CJ1
So we are thinkin that now for many people (private and business flights), is good a king air 90 also, does not important if they arrive 20' later...important is to spend few money.
For this we are looking for the best airplane for that. We don't want buy any airplane for now, our idea is find some aircraft in dry lease, because we are pilots also, with all the requirements.
Do you have any idea, price and comments regarding all of above?
thanks

mau mau

Why nobody does not help me?

captjns

Based on operating, training, and leasing costs, perhaps your fellow colleagues closer to home would provide more accurate information for your operational needs.

Ewfflyer

Well a T-Prop is always going to be cheaper to operate than any jet, so that should answer that. Now the range issue really depends on how many people you're loading in a specific airframe anyways. A King-Air 200 would give you about 280KTAS, while the Be90's are only 245 at the most I think. You definately need to consider the typical passenger load, think you can put 4-6 reasonably in the Be90, the Be20 can hold 6-8 pending configuration. There's always the Piaggio that's the combination of Efficiency and Speed, at a cost of higher maintenance. Seats 8 also I believe.

I know the Europeans have a lot of different rules, so aircraft size and weight, noise, are all big issues that I think you should tap into local talent for.

BoilerUP

Not necessarily. A turboprop will burn less fuel than a jet, but depending on the length of the trip the total cost-per-mile (maintenance inclusive) could very well be cheaper in a jet vs. a turboprop due to faster block speeds.

Given European flying (something I have no experience with) there are many issues to consider when picking an airframe: MTOW of the airplane and its fuel burn for ATC and carbon cap-and-trade fees, runway requirements, hangar considerations, availability of training, etc. Also important is the typical mission; if your average stage length is 250nm then a turboprop is your no-brainer airframe; if its upwards of 500nm then perhaps a light jet is the ticket. In this same vein, whats the average passenger load?

The OP is familiar with the CJ1, and the entire CJ family is stupidly cheap to operate for being light jets. Also, I think there is a CJ simulator at FSI Farnborough which makes training easy and a Cessna Citation Service Center at LeBourget which makes service easy. I'm predisposed to like the CJs because I fly one; they're really hard to beat for the blend of speed & efficiency they provide.

Bottom line, there are lots of options out there that could fit your mission...A TBM700/850 if you don't mind a single engine, a C90 or B200, or a CJ1.

Good luck!

Lighteningspeed

Mau Mau, you have to first break down the cost into acquisition cost, operating cost, fixed cost which includes hangar space, insurance etc. Then you need a cost per mile analysis for any jet you are considering and for any turboprops such as King Air C90, B200 etc.

Then you need to determine what will be your average operating range. You said 200 to 1000 miles. That's a lot of territory. Turboprops are usually good at short ranges. Any range that will take more than 2 hours in a turboprop, the slow speed of the turboprop catches up with it to a point it might be better to use a faster jet, not to mention the passenger comfort. I don't know about you but most people including myself can only take about 2 hours in a loud turboprop.

Another consideration is how many passengers you are planning carry and what cargo load, if any. CJ1 is really a 4 place jet with full fuel.

propjunkie

Get a King Air

Tgaug6300

I suggest that you look at the CJ2+. operating out of Italy you definitly want to stay at or below 12,500lbs. Taxes and user fee are very expensive over that weight for your mission. As BoilerUp stated you can often times operate it much less than many King Airs. JetAviation in Zurich is a certified Service Center too, and they do excellent work. There will also be another Cessna Service Center opening in Spain as well.

Did you by chance have a chance to attend this years EBACE?

mau mau

Thank you really much to everybody. But the problem is the budget. JET is really out because budget is not more than 1 million. less is better. Or take some dry lease.
Single turboprop is to much expensive. CJ series is expensive (good may be some SPI or SPII at maximum). Or something like cheyenne.
Our idea is private flights like air taxi, but "low costs".
Hold present that here in Europe (in particular way Italy) 1 hour king air costs is around double respect USA. Think about jets.. :-(

bradeku1008

Get a Conquest 2 (C441) its a great airplane and will save you alot of $ on fuel.