BoilerUP

Read again - there wasn't any "adolescent name calling".

I said the line of thinking was asinine, not the person doing the thinking.

Big difference between the two.

And I thought you went to JU, not Purdue? When did you graduate?

Logical fallacy.

Lets take your "physicians with tuition reimbursement" angle. Med school is what they have to have in order to be called doctor; flight training is what a pilot needs to be called "professional pilot". In both cases, we're talking about basic-level required training. Now lets move to a type rating, which is specialized training. Do doctors have to sign a contract with their employer in order to receive cardiothoracic or OB-GYN specialized training? More to the point, are doctors required to pay for that specialized training themselves, up front, only to be reimbursed back by their employer?

I think not.

Also, having training contracts may deter "bandit behavior" from someone taking a $20k type rating and leaving...but indentured servitude via training contract does nothing to foster "company loyalty"; on the contrary, it places a financial restriction on someone who might seek to better their family or themselves in another position. While that may be less of a factor on an Initial, its a basic fact if one is faced with annual contracts for their Recurrent training. To leave, you have to "buy" your freedom...freedom from a company that wouldn't hesitate to terminate your employment if it was in their financial best interest.

I'm very happy to hear your customers aren't being severely impacted by the financial crisis and major slowdown in the economy. Many 91 departments and most 135 departments that I'm aware of cannot say the same. My company, however, seems to be similar to yours in viability; we're taking a new airplane in the spring and flew record hours this summer despite the record fuel prices.

Again, companies only do that sort of thing because pilots let them get away with it; pilots as a collective group are our own worst enemies when it comes to compensation and lifestyle.

And while SWA requires one obtain a 737 type before attending class, Republic does NOT require their candidates to pay for their training up front (they do require a 24mo training contract). While I personally dislike the concept of a training contract I realize why they exist; I abhor the thought of someone being forced to pay for their own training, upfront, as a precondition of employment for a business aviation job based on my reasons above...reimbursed or not.

I personally will not subsidize someone's operation of a business jet; I believe if someone can afford an aircraft, they can afford to train the pilots required for it.

You have an awfully thin skin if you think disagreement with your position is the same thing as flamebait.

I've explained and defended my position - no defend yours. Prove me wrong. After all, this is about thoughts and business practices, not about individual posters...

PC12Flyer

Thanks for all of the replies so far. I agree with you all that I should get that contract in writing, as I had the same concerns as many of you expressed on this forum. At any rate, if I get offered the position and get a contract, I think I will go for it. I will keep you all posted when I find out more.

Thanks!

Pilotpip

NEVER PAY FOR TRAINING

If you're holding a commercial certificate, you have the required training on your part. I think you have it quite wrong on your "good business plan". Reputable flight departments don't require you paying for your type.

If they can't afford to train you, how can they afford the jet?
Why are they requiring to pay up front?
Can they not keep people there?
If that's the case, why would you want to work there?
If they're cutting corners on training, what other corners are being cut?

If it were a place with competative pay and work conditions they wouldn't have problems with people leaving after getting typed.

airventure

Absolutely uncalled for. I know pilots who fly for this company and they are outstanding individuals. They made a difficult career choice in paying for training, and to hold it against them is unprofessional. This is not to say I agree with the practice, but for heaven's sake aviation is an industry of professionals, let's live up to it.

Pilotpip

Professionals get paid to work. Not the other way around.

Ziggy

I realize some area's of the country are still doing well charter wise. Whether this is because you operate out of a high end area or what not. But articles have already been published, companies and flight dept closing down, and others just letting go of those they can't afford.
As a charter pilot I've had the opportunity to chad with others on this situtation only to reaffirm my above statement. But I doubt that I, or the dozens and more unemployed corporate/charter pilots are lying.

NowCorporate

They deserve what they get. Sorry, no sympathy for guys who get their butts handed to them in these schemes.

The rest of us managed to get jobs with hard work and networking, not by seeking shortcuts and financing low end PFT operations.

But hey, its not my money, or my more importantly - MY RESUME.

Whatever gets ya through.....

PC12Flyer

Folks, my intentions for this thread was not to bash people who pay for their own training or single them out as not being hard workers or not networking to find good flying jobs. These comments take away from the professionalism that I had hoped to find in the answers to my question. As for the company, I will leave it un named for now as I have not been offered a job yet, but it is by no means a low end company. On the contrary, it is very reputable and did anyone stop to think that the reason they have you pay for your type is that maybe they had been taken advantage of in the past? Perhaps guys were getting in, getting types in a jet and with no contract, just saying "so long" after a few months to move on to other jobs? Unless we know the whole story, it's not very professional in my eyes to speculate.

Call me a sucker maybe, call me what you want, if I have to pay for a type, so be it. It is my choice and when it comes to collecting a measly unemployment check, or paying for a type for a job that makes a very good salary, I will do what is best for me. I am just as hard a worker as any other pilot and I network just as much as any of you, but when the pickings are slim, you gotta do what will put food on the table for your family. If anyone has anything to say about that, put yourself in my shoes.

Thanks for all the replies so far, now lets keep it professional everyone and stop judging people.

USMCFLYR

PC12Flyer -

Welcome to APC.
Unfortuantely - you have hit upon one of the most hotly contested topics in the professional pilot community with Pay For Training.
In answer to your question you get a wide ranging variety of responses. My advice - read them all, take what useful advice you can get from them, and try to understand where some of the anger originates. Some people may not have the best way of presenting their views (read and follow the TOS), but it doesn't mean that the sentiment behind the response isn't something that you should pay attention too if you decide to make aviation a serious and long term career.

USMCFLYR

BoilerUP

I agree, we should all strive to keep our disagreements on the high road...disagreeing with the issue, not the poster.