Originally Posted by Crimson

What if I'm one be of the lucky people who regularly gets 6 hours of sleep at night because that's how my body works? Anything more than that would make me feel more tired that just the 6 I work better at. Do I call fatigued every day because I did not get the full 8 hours of sleep? No.
Calling in fatigued should not be a way to "stick it to the company" because your unhappy with an assignment and you found a loophole that can technically work. Theres a true difference in feeling tired/sleepy vs fatigued. You know your body, if you feel fine, fly it. If you truely do feel fatigued call it. But this kind of BS is the thing that will make the whole pilot group be questioned when they call in fatigued when its truely is the case due to a time zone changes, min rest, and compounding delays. Just because some people don't like their reserve assignment.

If you truely feel this is a real issue, email your FT/DT union and have them research it and talk to the company.

Originally Posted by Crimson

What if I'm one be of the lucky people who regularly gets 6 hours of sleep at night because that's how my body works? Anything more than that would make me feel more tired that just the 6 I work better at. Do I call fatigued every day because I did not get the full 8 hours of sleep? No.
Calling in fatigued should not be a way to "stick it to the company" because your unhappy with an assignment and you found a loophole that can technically work. Theres a true difference in feeling tired/sleepy vs fatigued. You know your body, if you feel fine, fly it. If you truly do feel fatigued call it. But this kind of BS is the thing that will make the whole pilot group be questioned when they call in fatigued when its truly is the case due to a time zone changes, min rest, and compounding delays. Just because some people don't like their reserve assignment.
If you truly feel this is a real issue, email your FT/DT union and have them research it and talk to the company.

Originally Posted by GreatBigSea

The company should never question any sort of fatigue call. Scheduling should immediately put you on rest and find you accommodations if away from base. If they start asking questions just tell them all the information will be found in your fatigue report and that you're going to get some rest. Be sure to include Sched/CP asking questions in your report.

FAR 117 specifies a joint responsibility between you and the company to show up well rested. Technically, the company "RAP swapping" is legal, although I don't believe its in the spirit of the regs. You're given your opportunity for rest by the company. If you can't sleep, and don't feel well rested at your report time, then call in fatigued. If you can sleep and feel well rested, then by all means fly the trip.

I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for calling fatigued in this scenario, and I would definitely make sure the next contract solves this issue.

Originally Posted by miker1

Anyone know what time the AA cafeteria in Term 4 LAX opens on a weekday morning?

Originally Posted by BlueMoon

10 hours rest is legal, the company isn't doing anything illegal.

The provided you the opportunity.

If you can't rest in the allotted time, you call in fatigued.

They aren't illegal assignments. They are only illegal if you report to work unfit for duty.

Originally Posted by AirBat

The company should not be in the business of providing legal, but likely fatiguing assignments. If it doesn't pass the smell test, why are they passing the buck? The company and you have a JOINT responsibility. Okay, yes, if you are the rare individual that can go and sleep for 8 hours and circadian rhythms don't apply to you, then woop-de-freaking-doo. That doesn't mean they don't have a joint responsibility to give me that opportunity, and if I'm in LAX and you release me at 9am for 10 hrs, most people aren't going to get an 8 hr sleep opportunity. That's why fatigue reports are tracked.... to actually go back and fix the issue.
Also, for a "fat airline" that's losing airplanes with this supposed surplus of pilots, we shouldn't need to do those types of assignments.

Originally Posted by AirBat

The company should not be in the business of providing legal, but likely fatiguing assignments. If it doesn't pass the smell test, why are they passing the buck? The company and you have a JOINT responsibility. Okay, yes, if you are the rare individual that can go and sleep for 8 hours and circadian rhythms don't apply to you, then woop-de-freaking-doo. That doesn't mean they don't have a joint responsibility to give me that opportunity, and if I'm in LAX and you release me at 9am for 10 hrs, most people aren't going to get an 8 hr sleep opportunity. That's why fatigue reports are tracked.... to actually go back and fix the issue.
Also, for a "fat airline" that's losing airplanes with this supposed surplus of pilots, we shouldn't need to do those types of assignments.

Originally Posted by CBreezy

So all back side of the clock should be illegal? Make sure to tell that to legacy pilots flying redeye pairings.