Compass Updates - Saga Continues
01-11-2017, 03:50 PM
#3091
Seat 0B
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 777 FO
Posts: 793
It wasn't judgment. Hence the question marks. Its an honest question as it seems some are using it as a crutch when other airlines are performing better in that market. If it's really that challenging your mainline partners will take that into consideration. If it's something else, well. I just can't believe it's any more difficult than the east coast market. Which was my original question?
01-11-2017, 03:57 PM
#3092
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,044
Nevermind......
Last edited by BlueMoon; 01-11-2017 at 04:15 PM.
01-11-2017, 04:11 PM
#3093
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 644
Too be fair, I was removed off an overnight because I was supposed to finish at trip in LA in the morning, get 10 hours rest, then start a trip at 9pm that night. I mentioned to crew planning/CPs how the even though I had the required rest opportunity that it would most likely result in no sleep and a potential fatigue situation that evening as like mentioned above, being expected to sleep during the day is pretty tough. Especially since I was expected to be well rested to finish the first trip in the morning . These were not CDOs either. It was a 2 day that finished in LA after a very early showtime in SEA. Followed by a 3 day that started later that night.
01-11-2017, 04:52 PM
#3094
New Hire
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Per FAA Advisory Circular 117-3:
"b. Hours of Rest and Sleep. Managing rest and sleep opportunities are essential for reducing the risk of being unfit for duty due to fatigue. A joint responsibility is again placed on the air carrier and the flightcrew member in § 117.25(e)(f), which prescribes that no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or FDP unless that flightcrew member is given a rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours immediately before beginning the reserve or FDP measured from the time the flightcrew member is released from duty. The 10-hour rest period must provide the flightcrew member with an opportunity of a minimum of 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. If the flightcrew member determines that the rest period will not provide an opportunity of 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep, that flightcrew member must notify the certificate holder. The flightcrew member cannot report for the assigned FDP until he or she receives a minimum of 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep opportunity.
If I'm fully rested at 08:00 for RAP2 and they call and place me on 12 hours rest to report at 20:05 for a CDO I know good and well I will not have the opportunity to get the 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep the FAA is requiring of me because I'm not tired. In this case, you cannot accept this assignment as a legal assignment per FAR117.
The "opportunity" has to be meaningful.
"b. Hours of Rest and Sleep. Managing rest and sleep opportunities are essential for reducing the risk of being unfit for duty due to fatigue. A joint responsibility is again placed on the air carrier and the flightcrew member in § 117.25(e)(f), which prescribes that no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or FDP unless that flightcrew member is given a rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours immediately before beginning the reserve or FDP measured from the time the flightcrew member is released from duty. The 10-hour rest period must provide the flightcrew member with an opportunity of a minimum of 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. If the flightcrew member determines that the rest period will not provide an opportunity of 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep, that flightcrew member must notify the certificate holder. The flightcrew member cannot report for the assigned FDP until he or she receives a minimum of 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep opportunity.
If I'm fully rested at 08:00 for RAP2 and they call and place me on 12 hours rest to report at 20:05 for a CDO I know good and well I will not have the opportunity to get the 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep the FAA is requiring of me because I'm not tired. In this case, you cannot accept this assignment as a legal assignment per FAR117.
The "opportunity" has to be meaningful.
01-11-2017, 05:14 PM
#3095
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Grp Cpt
Posts: 260
Per FAA Advisory Circular 117-3:
"b. Hours of Rest and Sleep. Managing rest and sleep opportunities are essential for reducing the risk of being unfit for duty due to fatigue. A joint responsibility is again placed on the air carrier and the flightcrew member in § 117.25(e)(f), which prescribes that no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or FDP unless that flightcrew member is given a rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours immediately before beginning the reserve or FDP measured from the time the flightcrew member is released from duty. The 10-hour rest period must provide the flightcrew member with an opportunity of a minimum of 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. If the flightcrew member determines that the rest period will not provide an opportunity of 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep, that flightcrew member must notify the certificate holder. The flightcrew member cannot report for the assigned FDP until he or she receives a minimum of 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep opportunity.
If I'm fully rested at 08:00 for RAP2 and they call and place me on 12 hours rest to report at 20:05 for a CDO I know good and well I will not have the opportunity to get the 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep the FAA is requiring of me because I'm not tired. In this case, you cannot accept this assignment as a legal assignment per FAR117.
The "opportunity" has to be meaningful.
"b. Hours of Rest and Sleep. Managing rest and sleep opportunities are essential for reducing the risk of being unfit for duty due to fatigue. A joint responsibility is again placed on the air carrier and the flightcrew member in § 117.25(e)(f), which prescribes that no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or FDP unless that flightcrew member is given a rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours immediately before beginning the reserve or FDP measured from the time the flightcrew member is released from duty. The 10-hour rest period must provide the flightcrew member with an opportunity of a minimum of 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. If the flightcrew member determines that the rest period will not provide an opportunity of 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep, that flightcrew member must notify the certificate holder. The flightcrew member cannot report for the assigned FDP until he or she receives a minimum of 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep opportunity.
If I'm fully rested at 08:00 for RAP2 and they call and place me on 12 hours rest to report at 20:05 for a CDO I know good and well I will not have the opportunity to get the 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep the FAA is requiring of me because I'm not tired. In this case, you cannot accept this assignment as a legal assignment per FAR117.
The "opportunity" has to be meaningful.
01-11-2017, 05:45 PM
#3096
New Hire
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
I am by no means a 117 expert but let me add my .02..... As a newhire, I would be nervous to tell CS to go F themselves based on 117 counsel I received from a stranger on APC with 4 posts. You seem like a knowledgeable person but if this in an ongoing issue the union should address what the meaning of the word "opportunity" is.
They know.
They're not.
01-11-2017, 06:29 PM
#3097
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 70
Haha this is funny. I merely stated the fact that you can expect more delta shuffling as these 175's are going to LAX and SEA. Remember Skywest has been on the west coast since the 1970's so what do you think happened when delta shifted compass flying into these long standing bases? We lost a lot of those routes. Did we cry about it? Nope! This is how the regional model works but I suspect that this is probably your first time dealing with it since the majority of your pilot group has less than 3 years experience.
01-11-2017, 07:16 PM
#3098
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,186
So based off these possible 117 violations, does anyone know if someone has actually called in fatigued and then been questioned by the company as to the fatigue call?
01-11-2017, 09:46 PM
#3099
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 70
You don't call in fatigued at Compass. You'll get a call from management saying that you're lying and then get a black mark on your record.
01-11-2017, 09:49 PM
#3100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 644
I called out fatigued over the summer once, filled out my report, never heard a word from anyone. And when I brought up my issue with the two pairings I had scheduled on the same day as mentioned earlier, my situation was accommodated by the CPs personally. So not sure why the broad statements/ fear mongering are necessary...
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