Compass updates
01-15-2015, 04:21 AM
#5561
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 175
I audited my pay and credit from the last two years and compared 4:45 adtg to 4 hr min calendar day. Adtg provided a significant amount more credit over that time. Only 3 months out of the last two years would 4 hr min calendar day have higher credit.
Everyone's situation is different. I'm local and prefer shorter trips, which has benefited more from adtg then 4 min calendar day and I've also done plenty of 12 hr 4 day trips when junior that would only be 16 hrs with min calendar day instead of 19 with adtg.
Everyone do your own math to make sure this is what you want.
Everyone's situation is different. I'm local and prefer shorter trips, which has benefited more from adtg then 4 min calendar day and I've also done plenty of 12 hr 4 day trips when junior that would only be 16 hrs with min calendar day instead of 19 with adtg.
Everyone do your own math to make sure this is what you want.
01-15-2015, 05:06 AM
#5562
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 593
Yes i agree, it will be different for everone. Believe it or not, but I have not gained a single minute or credit, ever, with adtg. I have only lost about 1100 bucks in pay because of adtg. But that is just my story. I just want the union to fight for what we originally were seeking in our contract amendment: 4 hrs min day credit and pay.
Ditto, I've bid 60-25% on FO side since ADTG went into effect, over 6 months I've lost 13 days off and $1678 that I would of had if we had the 4 hour min and PBS credit that we agreed to in new contract
01-15-2015, 06:26 AM
#5563
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Posts: 241
The only thing that actually matters is credit. It means more men the company must hire and it is the difference between getting to choose money or a day off.
01-15-2015, 07:19 AM
#5564
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,044
That's all well and good, but that assumes two things. One the arbitrator sides with the Union. I don't know what the likely hood of that happening or not is. The union seemed to think that there was enough risk of it going against us that they elected to find a solution outside arbitration. Second, it assumes the company doesn't modify pairings to mitigate the soft time associated with the pay/credit rule.
01-15-2015, 07:20 AM
#5565
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Posts: 52
Exactly. We need to think about the people that are going to live with this decision for years to come. When/if this company finally settles with its staffing, we have to ask ourselves if we improved the lives of those after us.
If we raise the floor of a 4-day from 10:30 (pre-contract), to 19:00 with the trip rig or even 16:00 with the 4/4...we have to ask what would be better 3 years from now.
If we raise the floor of a 4-day from 10:30 (pre-contract), to 19:00 with the trip rig or even 16:00 with the 4/4...we have to ask what would be better 3 years from now.
01-15-2015, 07:33 AM
#5566
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,044
I can honestly see both ways having an upside and a downside. The way I see it the ADTG allows us to have a floor of 19:00 for a four day vs a floor of 16 hours for a 4 day.
I said I prefer the 4:45, as it guarantees I never will fly a 16 hour 4 day or a 20 hour 5 day. Don't think it can't happen to you.
I wish we could have the best of both worlds, but I have a better chance of winning the lotto than that happening.
Going to go get my Mega Millions ticket now.
I said I prefer the 4:45, as it guarantees I never will fly a 16 hour 4 day or a 20 hour 5 day. Don't think it can't happen to you.
I wish we could have the best of both worlds, but I have a better chance of winning the lotto than that happening.
Going to go get my Mega Millions ticket now.
01-15-2015, 09:22 AM
#5567
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: Satisfied
Posts: 379
Personally, I think the best solution would be a higher ADTG.
01-15-2015, 12:35 PM
#5568
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 593
That's all well and good, but that assumes two things. One the arbitrator sides with the Union. I don't know what the likely hood of that happening or not is. The union seemed to think that there was enough risk of it going against us that they elected to find a solution outside arbitration. Second, it assumes the company doesn't modify pairings to mitigate the soft time associated with the pay/credit rule.
The arbitrator is out of the picture now, we get 4 hour min day + PBS credit if we agree to it...per the union conference call
2
80%of the extra credit you see in the data for ADTG we received went to reserve FO's who didn't break garuntee, this is data the company would not provide, but in our union conference call earlier this week it was provided by our union who did all the math, I still don't know why this is being debated
ADTG helps out 5% of the pilots here, if we went to four hour min plus PBS credit, the company would have to staff an additional 10 to 20 pilots, The company wants us to have ADTG because it saves them a ton of money, they were the ones who came up with this in the beginning
Last edited by djrogs03; 01-15-2015 at 12:54 PM.
01-15-2015, 12:48 PM
#5569
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,044
Ok, at the time the decision was made, he was not.
I'd Still rather have the ADTG.
ADTG protects everyone from a 16 hour 4 day.
4 hour pay and credit only helps the folks that get 30 hour layovers.
I'd Still rather have the ADTG.
ADTG protects everyone from a 16 hour 4 day.
4 hour pay and credit only helps the folks that get 30 hour layovers.
01-15-2015, 12:49 PM
#5570
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: Supreme Allied Commander
Posts: 1,074
Just use the flow chart! 
4hr min day benefit:
Is it a 3-day, 4-day, 5-day pairing?
...........NO---> No benefit -end-
...........YES--> Continue
Is there a 30 hr layover?
...........NO---> No benefit -end-
...........YES--> Continue
Do the combined duty days average >5 hrs of pay?
...........NO---> No benefit -end-
...........Yes--> Benefit of 0.1-5.0 credit. -end
4hr min day benefit:
Is it a 3-day, 4-day, 5-day pairing?
...........NO---> No benefit -end-
...........YES--> Continue
Is there a 30 hr layover?
...........NO---> No benefit -end-
...........YES--> Continue
Do the combined duty days average >5 hrs of pay?
...........NO---> No benefit -end-
...........Yes--> Benefit of 0.1-5.0 credit. -end
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