Tinpusher007

I don't agree that taking a job with a regional in and of itself implies guilt. Furthermore, telling someone to postpone their career goals for the sake of mistake that was made years ago is not at all realistic. I don't think its the right way to go. Trying to improve the current situation is a better option.

Think about it, if there were no one at the regionals because they all sucked, could there ever be a chance at improvement? Who is to say the majors wouldn't drive mainline payscales down even further to match the savings they get by flying RJ's? I wouldn't put it past them. Do the many RJ pilots who made it to the majors not deserve their jobs? When managment forces concessions on a major pilot group, are they 'guilty' for not quitting? Im not at all suggesting that mainline pilots should thank RJ pilots for anything or that they owe us. Im just pointing out that the idea that if not for so many RJ's things would be so much better and everyone who flies an RJ now would be at a higher paying mainline job is more theory than fact. Most people want a mainline flying job. But you need experience to get that job. No other flying job offers as many potential pilots the exact kind of training and experience they will need at the majors than regionals do. So then you have to ask yourself, is passing up that job with a regional the way to go in furtherence of one's aspirations to fly at the majors?

johnso29

Of course you don't agree. You have to justify the decision you made. It's human nature.

I'm pretty sure most of the regionals suck NOW, and we're not seeing a lot of improvement at any of them. Look at how long management at TSA, Pinnacle, and others have successfully stalled contract improvements.

In regards to your RJ mainline pay comment, DAL has the RJs on their payscale. And they pay much better.

I'd admitted that there's fault on both sides. Can you?

Pilotpip

So are those working for airlines who give up that scope. Based on your stance you should quit on principal.

Like I said earlier, how about we stop the territorial ****ing and work to improve the industry for all of us? We can't do much about the past but we all have at least 5 more years to worry about it than we did a couple years ago.

johnso29

I already admitted this. I agree with this. My point is the guilt lies with more then one party. Agree to disagree. We could probably go back and forth all month.

That being said, I am sorry to hear about your double furlough. If this economy keeps up, I could be right there with you.

I wish you Safe and Happy Holidays.

Tinpusher007

Agree to disagree? Yes. Happy holidays to you and your family as well. And I sincerely hope no one drops the F-bomb on you.

johnso29

Thanks, and Happy Holidays to you and your Loved Ones.

Killer51883

so what should all of us regional pilots do? Are we supposed to stop flying any route that was a mainline route? I do PIT PHL all the time. USAir used to run 767's on that route. What about PHL LGA on the dash usair flew 737's and airbuses on that one. The express jet guys flying the routes cal used to fly 737 and 757's on what should they do? Should we all just stop showing up to work and refuse to fly. The mainline guys scream and complain about jobs being lost to regional or replacement pilots but all we are doing is our job. If RAH didnt bid for 70 seat flying for some one else would of like mesa or some other carrier. The arguement that we should never have taken the job doesnt work either. We went to school to be pilots and if theres a flying job available we are going to take it. Should I quit my job at RAH cause its a "replacement" company and go back to flight instructing? Do you know what flight instructors make? What about 135 flying? Have you seen the flight time requirements for a descent 135 gig? The problem started when mainline pilots allowed for code shareing and express operations to exist. Its not regional pilots fault. The only way for this to change is for mainline to start getting tough on scope. If that means taking a pay cut to get it back well then you do what you have to do. Please give us replacement pilots a hint on what we should do to fix this mess. If you can even let us know what mainline pilots can ACTUALLY do to change this as well.

BoilerUP

As low as 500tt for a light jet SIC...but for a decent job with good compensation? Yeah they normally want 1500hrs as a bare minimum, and often in excess of 2500hrs. That is driven by insurance, but more by consultants that do ratings like ARG/US and Wyvern.

benairguitar23

So your saying that all those hard working flight instructors out there or furloughed pilots who had to go back to flight instructing (like myself) who love to fly should just give up the dream of EVER flying for an airline and not ever apply or fly for any regional until YOU'RE getting paid a better wage???!!! From your remarks it sounds as though you are the one who is being selfish not the guys who are lower on the totum pole! I've wanted to fly for an airline since I was 5 yrs old, from the first time I stepped onto a United 737-200 in 1984 I KNEW that's what I wanted to do! I agree that we pilots should be getting better wages but the ultimate reason I got into flying was because I LOVE TO FLY!!!! And us lower time pilots have to start SOMEWHERE!! So if that means that we need to go to regionals who are paying lower wages just so we can start building time then so be it. WE ARE NOT THE ONES WHO LOWERED THE WAGES!!!! It started in the 90's when YOU were at the regionals! So you need to get off of your Scarebus high horse and look in the mirror. You had to start somewhere and so do we. Times have changed due to 9/11 (Never Forget!), skyrocketing fuel prices and many other issues!! And I for one am not going to give up my lifelong dream of flying for an airline just because you want us to start changing things by not applying and flying for these companies. If we don't someone else will. And just so you don't think I am one of those guys with 200 hours just out of school (which I completely dissagree with, they should pay their dues like everyone else) I have been flight instructing for almost 3 yrs, I'm approaching ATP mins and have over 400 hours of multi-time. So yes I have put in my dues and feel I deserve to be able to go to a good airline where people enjoy flying even if that means starting at a lower wage for a little while. And another point, I'm not one of those instructors whose is single and will be taking a pay cut to go to a regional. I have a wife and two children and would be taking a pay RAISE to go fly for an airline. Therfore, why don't you remember what it was like to start out in the aviation industry and stop putting the blame on us, because it wasn't us who started the trend........Look in the mirror!

johnso29

FYI...I flight instructed for 3 years myself. I also didn't start flight instructing until AFTER 9/11, so it wasn't me at the regionals in the 90's who lowered the bar. And it's not about the wages to me, it's about the larger airplanes. I wish they were at mainline so there were more jobs for regional guys to move up to.

I realize guys have to start somewhere, I just don't want it to be in 70+ seat airplanes. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed. Sometimes I still can't let go of that. As I said in another thread, I lay down my sword in defeat. I will remember these discussions the next time the scope comes to the table.

Kudos to you for flight instructing so long. I remember how sick I got of doing Turns around a point, Steep Turns, and S Turns across a road.

Happy Holidays to you and your Family, and Good Luck in your future job hunt.