Compass Airline intel?
01-19-2009, 01:56 PM
#141
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
All right then, since you're so sure that DAL will furlough, will you take a stand and not take the flow back, or will you take the flying job that's available to you?
With the refugees we have from other airlines, some by choice, some not, I really can't think of any Compass FOs that fit the stereotype you're trying to paint. We are simply trying to find the best opportunity in a bad period. There is not one pilot at Compass who feels that our compensation is adequate for the job we do, just like there is not one pilot at the new Delta, or any airline, that feels the pay cuts over the years were acceptable. Your assumption that everyone here has SJS, and doesn't care about our pay is extremely condesending. To demean us for accepting one of the few flying jobs out there (as less than steller as it may be) in order to preserve our livelihood and career, after you and your peers have conitinually given that scope up in order preserve yours is a profound hypocrisy.
Compass represents both an unfortunate concession, and a unique opportunity. According to the email I just got, Compass is a part of the new Delta MEC. If anyone at the new Delta feels we shouldn't be here, or don't get paid enough, or fly a plane that should be at mainline, let's work together to fix it. That would be much more effective than demeaning posts on a forum, hassling us when we try to go home, or expecting us to take one for the team in a way that most would never do themselves.
I welcome constructive criticism, and a thoughtful debate. I do not accept pompous rhetoric and gloating about a possible furlough.
With the refugees we have from other airlines, some by choice, some not, I really can't think of any Compass FOs that fit the stereotype you're trying to paint. We are simply trying to find the best opportunity in a bad period. There is not one pilot at Compass who feels that our compensation is adequate for the job we do, just like there is not one pilot at the new Delta, or any airline, that feels the pay cuts over the years were acceptable. Your assumption that everyone here has SJS, and doesn't care about our pay is extremely condesending. To demean us for accepting one of the few flying jobs out there (as less than steller as it may be) in order to preserve our livelihood and career, after you and your peers have conitinually given that scope up in order preserve yours is a profound hypocrisy.
Compass represents both an unfortunate concession, and a unique opportunity. According to the email I just got, Compass is a part of the new Delta MEC. If anyone at the new Delta feels we shouldn't be here, or don't get paid enough, or fly a plane that should be at mainline, let's work together to fix it. That would be much more effective than demeaning posts on a forum, hassling us when we try to go home, or expecting us to take one for the team in a way that most would never do themselves.
I welcome constructive criticism, and a thoughtful debate. I do not accept pompous rhetoric and gloating about a possible furlough.
01-19-2009, 02:18 PM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Looking Forward
Posts: 253
If anyone at the new Delta feels we shouldn't be here, or don't get paid enough, or fly a plane that should be at mainline, let's work together to fix it. That would be much more effective than demeaning posts on a forum, hassling us when we try to go home, or expecting us to take one for the team in a way that most would never do themselves.
Well said my friend. Those that are the most vocal about the negatives of Compass are usually those who know the least. As for SJS, the 175 is a downsize for a large number of our pilots, I don't think you'll find a lot of delusions about what we have. Compass is a refugee camp for many very experienced people who needed a job when no one else was hiring, not an airline introduction for college kids.
01-19-2009, 04:11 PM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Delta Colors Busholio
Posts: 233
To answer your original question, no I won't take the flowback position. First of all I commute from the left coast and any less of a commuter policy or time off would likely send my marriage into a death spiral. If or when I get the boot, I will likely go acrue more time towards a federal/military retirement. With the mere fact that people are lined up to take these jobs, with greater than 1,500 hours TT and an ATP to boot, I have to ask my fellow pilots this? What incentive exists for an employer to pay more or move those airframes to mainline? If I were in management and could muster up well educated, more than qualified, formerly experienced 121 guys with vastly more experience than I could find even 15 years ago, why would I change a thing when I have thousands of applications on file? At some point I would even convince myself that pilots are happily taking the jobs, especially if they have great attitudes at 24 an hour.
My insult is not targeted at the professionals flying these planes, rather the managements that play us on eachother. My only gripe is with those that can't read the writing on the wall because no one has explained it to them. In fact I would fly side-by-side with any of the Compass guys, just not at Compass. My point of frustration is with promises that are as solid as the paper they are written on. The flowthrough at Eagle never worked yet pilots spent over a decade waiting to be or hoping to be stapled to the bottom of American, at least hoping for a flow through number that would someday guarantee them a long term financial prosperity; for most it will never happen as that agreement is no longer in place. I made lots of friends with those former TWA types, but they and I agreed that the flowthrough was written first and foremost as a flowback agreement with a flowthrough provision, basically a punishment to Eagle for parking mainline lift and ordering 300 jets on Eagle's certificate. Additionally, everyone one of them rode my tail feathers to punch out of Eagle and get that left seat time somewhere else, even at the fractionals. Sadly, I have friends who are '99 hires recently displaced off a Saab back again to jet FO; this is the third cycle for some of them.
Unions. Why in the heck NWA MEC ever granted permission for NWA to operate Compass as basically a C-scale is beyond me. The 1,500 hour and ATP requirement was put inplace to create staffing issues in a market when airlines couldn't find anyone unemployed with more than 400 hours. APA once represented Eagle pilots but threw them to the street. Now days AMR plays Eagle against APA every chance they can get. Some have moved to push Compass to another MEC, I disagree. Representing Compass gives the mainline pilots some leverage in trying to get your tails over to this side of the fence. People are slowly coming around, realizing that the ways of old are not the best.
Again, I have no problem with you. I am just speaking from personal experience and wish the best to my fellow bird men (and women). Just wish you and those new planes weren't on B Concourse.
Lastly, how many guys flowed back last time?
01-19-2009, 04:53 PM
#145
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 781
When they pulled my stuff out of airlineapps I declined to even show up for an interview despite numerous phone calls from them. I even went as far to cite the necessity for fiscal responsibility in this career and that working for $24 an hour, less then a 400 hour Saab FO at American Eagle is foolish. The individual then went on to cite how much money I would make someday when I flowed up to NWA. I quickly informed him of my experience with flow throughs at American Eagle, 120 guys flowed up, 600 flowed back. I went on to ask if the contract was written as a flowthrough with a flowback provision or vice versa; of course he had no idea. Now I am at NWA probably a decade before I would've ever seen that flowthrough and up until October I was asking myself where is the money? It would've been something like 9 year 757 pay before breakig 90 an hour. Fortunately an aquistion by DAL pulled me out of the hell B-Scale; I was betting on a merger when I took the job.
To answer your original question, no I won't take the flowback position. First of all I commute from the left coast and any less of a commuter policy or time off would likely send my marriage into a death spiral. If or when I get the boot, I will likely go acrue more time towards a federal/military retirement. With the mere fact that people are lined up to take these jobs, with greater than 1,500 hours TT and an ATP to boot, I have to ask my fellow pilots this? What incentive exists for an employer to pay more or move those airframes to mainline? If I were in management and could muster up well educated, more than qualified, formerly experienced 121 guys with vastly more experience than I could find even 15 years ago, why would I change a thing when I have thousands of applications on file? At some point I would even convince myself that pilots are happily taking the jobs, especially if they have great attitudes at 24 an hour.
My insult is not targeted at the professionals flying these planes, rather the managements that play us on eachother. My only gripe is with those that can't read the writing on the wall because no one has explained it to them. In fact I would fly side-by-side with any of the Compass guys, just not at Compass. My point of frustration is with promises that are as solid as the paper they are written on. The flowthrough at Eagle never worked yet pilots spent over a decade waiting to be or hoping to be stapled to the bottom of American, at least hoping for a flow through number that would someday guarantee them a long term financial prosperity; for most it will never happen as that agreement is no longer in place. I made lots of friends with those former TWA types, but they and I agreed that the flowthrough was written first and foremost as a flowback agreement with a flowthrough provision, basically a punishment to Eagle for parking mainline lift and ordering 300 jets on Eagle's certificate. Additionally, everyone one of them rode my tail feathers to punch out of Eagle and get that left seat time somewhere else, even at the fractionals. Sadly, I have friends who are '99 hires recently displaced off a Saab back again to jet FO; this is the third cycle for some of them.
Unions. Why in the heck NWA MEC ever granted permission for NWA to operate Compass as basically a C-scale is beyond me. The 1,500 hour and ATP requirement was put inplace to create staffing issues in a market when airlines couldn't find anyone unemployed with more than 400 hours. APA once represented Eagle pilots but threw them to the street. Now days AMR plays Eagle against APA every chance they can get. Some have moved to push Compass to another MEC, I disagree. Representing Compass gives the mainline pilots some leverage in trying to get your tails over to this side of the fence. People are slowly coming around, realizing that the ways of old are not the best.
Again, I have no problem with you. I am just speaking from personal experience and wish the best to my fellow bird men (and women). Just wish you and those new planes weren't on B Concourse.
Lastly, how many guys flowed back last time?
To answer your original question, no I won't take the flowback position. First of all I commute from the left coast and any less of a commuter policy or time off would likely send my marriage into a death spiral. If or when I get the boot, I will likely go acrue more time towards a federal/military retirement. With the mere fact that people are lined up to take these jobs, with greater than 1,500 hours TT and an ATP to boot, I have to ask my fellow pilots this? What incentive exists for an employer to pay more or move those airframes to mainline? If I were in management and could muster up well educated, more than qualified, formerly experienced 121 guys with vastly more experience than I could find even 15 years ago, why would I change a thing when I have thousands of applications on file? At some point I would even convince myself that pilots are happily taking the jobs, especially if they have great attitudes at 24 an hour.
My insult is not targeted at the professionals flying these planes, rather the managements that play us on eachother. My only gripe is with those that can't read the writing on the wall because no one has explained it to them. In fact I would fly side-by-side with any of the Compass guys, just not at Compass. My point of frustration is with promises that are as solid as the paper they are written on. The flowthrough at Eagle never worked yet pilots spent over a decade waiting to be or hoping to be stapled to the bottom of American, at least hoping for a flow through number that would someday guarantee them a long term financial prosperity; for most it will never happen as that agreement is no longer in place. I made lots of friends with those former TWA types, but they and I agreed that the flowthrough was written first and foremost as a flowback agreement with a flowthrough provision, basically a punishment to Eagle for parking mainline lift and ordering 300 jets on Eagle's certificate. Additionally, everyone one of them rode my tail feathers to punch out of Eagle and get that left seat time somewhere else, even at the fractionals. Sadly, I have friends who are '99 hires recently displaced off a Saab back again to jet FO; this is the third cycle for some of them.
Unions. Why in the heck NWA MEC ever granted permission for NWA to operate Compass as basically a C-scale is beyond me. The 1,500 hour and ATP requirement was put inplace to create staffing issues in a market when airlines couldn't find anyone unemployed with more than 400 hours. APA once represented Eagle pilots but threw them to the street. Now days AMR plays Eagle against APA every chance they can get. Some have moved to push Compass to another MEC, I disagree. Representing Compass gives the mainline pilots some leverage in trying to get your tails over to this side of the fence. People are slowly coming around, realizing that the ways of old are not the best.
Again, I have no problem with you. I am just speaking from personal experience and wish the best to my fellow bird men (and women). Just wish you and those new planes weren't on B Concourse.
Lastly, how many guys flowed back last time?
01-19-2009, 08:41 PM
#146
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: EMB 145 CA/FO
Posts: 71
If you want to know who’s fault this all is I can tell you. Next time you see a gray hair mainline caption that won’t even look at you. Its them! They gave on scope (eating the young) to save what they had. Then the airlines filed for BK and took it all anyway.
Without mainline pilot unions caving or giving up scope this would NEVER have happened. A jet would be a mainline airplane an RJ/CRJ or MD80 would all be mainline pay.
We are paying for this 10 to 15 year stagnation, a lesion learned that hard way for next generation pilot.
Without mainline pilot unions caving or giving up scope this would NEVER have happened. A jet would be a mainline airplane an RJ/CRJ or MD80 would all be mainline pay.
We are paying for this 10 to 15 year stagnation, a lesion learned that hard way for next generation pilot.
01-19-2009, 09:59 PM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: ERJ-175
Posts: 217
No one here is cheerful about the fact we're being paid 1/2 what we should be. Sometimes you just have to do the best you can with the opportunity you have.
If the E175 was flown mainline it'd still be on B Concourse!?
01-20-2009, 03:14 AM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Cessna 152 Captain
Posts: 695
When they pulled my stuff out of airlineapps I declined to even show up for an interview despite numerous phone calls from them. I even went as far to cite the necessity for fiscal responsibility in this career and that working for $24 an hour, less then a 400 hour Saab FO at American Eagle is foolish. The individual then went on to cite how much money I would make someday when I flowed up to NWA. I quickly informed him of my experience with flow throughs at American Eagle, 120 guys flowed up, 600 flowed back. I went on to ask if the contract was written as a flowthrough with a flowback provision or vice versa; of course he had no idea. Now I am at NWA probably a decade before I would've ever seen that flowthrough and up until October I was asking myself where is the money? It would've been something like 9 year 757 pay before breakig 90 an hour. Fortunately an aquistion by DAL pulled me out of the hell B-Scale; I was betting on a merger when I took the job.
To answer your original question, no I won't take the flowback position. First of all I commute from the left coast and any less of a commuter policy or time off would likely send my marriage into a death spiral. If or when I get the boot, I will likely go acrue more time towards a federal/military retirement. With the mere fact that people are lined up to take these jobs, with greater than 1,500 hours TT and an ATP to boot, I have to ask my fellow pilots this? What incentive exists for an employer to pay more or move those airframes to mainline? If I were in management and could muster up well educated, more than qualified, formerly experienced 121 guys with vastly more experience than I could find even 15 years ago, why would I change a thing when I have thousands of applications on file? At some point I would even convince myself that pilots are happily taking the jobs, especially if they have great attitudes at 24 an hour.
My insult is not targeted at the professionals flying these planes, rather the managements that play us on eachother. My only gripe is with those that can't read the writing on the wall because no one has explained it to them. In fact I would fly side-by-side with any of the Compass guys, just not at Compass. My point of frustration is with promises that are as solid as the paper they are written on. The flowthrough at Eagle never worked yet pilots spent over a decade waiting to be or hoping to be stapled to the bottom of American, at least hoping for a flow through number that would someday guarantee them a long term financial prosperity; for most it will never happen as that agreement is no longer in place. I made lots of friends with those former TWA types, but they and I agreed that the flowthrough was written first and foremost as a flowback agreement with a flowthrough provision, basically a punishment to Eagle for parking mainline lift and ordering 300 jets on Eagle's certificate. Additionally, everyone one of them rode my tail feathers to punch out of Eagle and get that left seat time somewhere else, even at the fractionals. Sadly, I have friends who are '99 hires recently displaced off a Saab back again to jet FO; this is the third cycle for some of them.
Unions. Why in the heck NWA MEC ever granted permission for NWA to operate Compass as basically a C-scale is beyond me. The 1,500 hour and ATP requirement was put inplace to create staffing issues in a market when airlines couldn't find anyone unemployed with more than 400 hours. APA once represented Eagle pilots but threw them to the street. Now days AMR plays Eagle against APA every chance they can get. Some have moved to push Compass to another MEC, I disagree. Representing Compass gives the mainline pilots some leverage in trying to get your tails over to this side of the fence. People are slowly coming around, realizing that the ways of old are not the best.
Again, I have no problem with you. I am just speaking from personal experience and wish the best to my fellow bird men (and women). Just wish you and those new planes weren't on B Concourse.
Lastly, how many guys flowed back last time?
To answer your original question, no I won't take the flowback position. First of all I commute from the left coast and any less of a commuter policy or time off would likely send my marriage into a death spiral. If or when I get the boot, I will likely go acrue more time towards a federal/military retirement. With the mere fact that people are lined up to take these jobs, with greater than 1,500 hours TT and an ATP to boot, I have to ask my fellow pilots this? What incentive exists for an employer to pay more or move those airframes to mainline? If I were in management and could muster up well educated, more than qualified, formerly experienced 121 guys with vastly more experience than I could find even 15 years ago, why would I change a thing when I have thousands of applications on file? At some point I would even convince myself that pilots are happily taking the jobs, especially if they have great attitudes at 24 an hour.
My insult is not targeted at the professionals flying these planes, rather the managements that play us on eachother. My only gripe is with those that can't read the writing on the wall because no one has explained it to them. In fact I would fly side-by-side with any of the Compass guys, just not at Compass. My point of frustration is with promises that are as solid as the paper they are written on. The flowthrough at Eagle never worked yet pilots spent over a decade waiting to be or hoping to be stapled to the bottom of American, at least hoping for a flow through number that would someday guarantee them a long term financial prosperity; for most it will never happen as that agreement is no longer in place. I made lots of friends with those former TWA types, but they and I agreed that the flowthrough was written first and foremost as a flowback agreement with a flowthrough provision, basically a punishment to Eagle for parking mainline lift and ordering 300 jets on Eagle's certificate. Additionally, everyone one of them rode my tail feathers to punch out of Eagle and get that left seat time somewhere else, even at the fractionals. Sadly, I have friends who are '99 hires recently displaced off a Saab back again to jet FO; this is the third cycle for some of them.
Unions. Why in the heck NWA MEC ever granted permission for NWA to operate Compass as basically a C-scale is beyond me. The 1,500 hour and ATP requirement was put inplace to create staffing issues in a market when airlines couldn't find anyone unemployed with more than 400 hours. APA once represented Eagle pilots but threw them to the street. Now days AMR plays Eagle against APA every chance they can get. Some have moved to push Compass to another MEC, I disagree. Representing Compass gives the mainline pilots some leverage in trying to get your tails over to this side of the fence. People are slowly coming around, realizing that the ways of old are not the best.
Again, I have no problem with you. I am just speaking from personal experience and wish the best to my fellow bird men (and women). Just wish you and those new planes weren't on B Concourse.
Lastly, how many guys flowed back last time?
01-20-2009, 04:40 AM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
Compass called me a bunch, too. If I had gone to the interview, and been hired, I would've been an FO for 1 year, and been a captain for the last six months, with a DAL number.
Now, I'm laid off, with about 0 chance I'll get called back. It looks like the NWA hiring has ended, so I'll never make DAL unless I got to Compass or Mesaba (I had a DAL interview in 1991, and was turned down).
I am getting unemployment, and I have no interviews yet. I may end up at GoJet, or some airline in Nigeria, or maybe I can get picked up at Eagle in 9-12 months, or maybe I'll have to get out of flying again-my last break it took me 10 years to get back in.
Hindsight IS 20/20, but the Compass thing would've been 20x better than where I'm at right now.
cliff
GRB
Compass called me a bunch, too. If I had gone to the interview, and been hired, I would've been an FO for 1 year, and been a captain for the last six months, with a DAL number.
Now, I'm laid off, with about 0 chance I'll get called back. It looks like the NWA hiring has ended, so I'll never make DAL unless I got to Compass or Mesaba (I had a DAL interview in 1991, and was turned down).
I am getting unemployment, and I have no interviews yet. I may end up at GoJet, or some airline in Nigeria, or maybe I can get picked up at Eagle in 9-12 months, or maybe I'll have to get out of flying again-my last break it took me 10 years to get back in.
Hindsight IS 20/20, but the Compass thing would've been 20x better than where I'm at right now.
cliff
GRB
01-20-2009, 06:22 AM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Delta Colors Busholio
Posts: 233
Hi!
Compass called me a bunch, too. If I had gone to the interview, and been hired, I would've been an FO for 1 year, and been a captain for the last six months, with a DAL number.
Now, I'm laid off, with about 0 chance I'll get called back. It looks like the NWA hiring has ended, so I'll never make DAL unless I got to Compass or Mesaba (I had a DAL interview in 1991, and was turned down).
I am getting unemployment, and I have no interviews yet. I may end up at GoJet, or some airline in Nigeria, or maybe I can get picked up at Eagle in 9-12 months, or maybe I'll have to get out of flying again-my last break it took me 10 years to get back in.
Hindsight IS 20/20, but the Compass thing would've been 20x better than where I'm at right now.
cliff
GRB
Compass called me a bunch, too. If I had gone to the interview, and been hired, I would've been an FO for 1 year, and been a captain for the last six months, with a DAL number.
Now, I'm laid off, with about 0 chance I'll get called back. It looks like the NWA hiring has ended, so I'll never make DAL unless I got to Compass or Mesaba (I had a DAL interview in 1991, and was turned down).
I am getting unemployment, and I have no interviews yet. I may end up at GoJet, or some airline in Nigeria, or maybe I can get picked up at Eagle in 9-12 months, or maybe I'll have to get out of flying again-my last break it took me 10 years to get back in.
Hindsight IS 20/20, but the Compass thing would've been 20x better than where I'm at right now.
cliff
GRB
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