CommutAir Rumors and Info
11-20-2011, 07:28 PM
#81
Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Tiki bar
Posts: 2,634
Everyone is bidding about 76 hours every 28 days now, that converts to over 82 hours per calender month. Its exactly the same. The only difference in the TA is that your bid hours go over the guarantee. All hours are still guaranteed unless you get your first turn canceled before you start your trip. The above 82 part is just credits you add on top of your bid value.(And you wont fly 82 with cancellations, but you still get the pay) You fly and bid the exact same as you do now, you get paid the higher rate. It's almost all pay protected. It doesnt seem like it is that simple, but it is. Min days off is also going up to 12 lineholder, 11 reserve so i don't see myself working any more days. Seriously, watch the roadshow, the math makes sense. I was just as skeptical too.
It is all pay protected. For the first turn cancellation example: Don't answer the phone to be notified on your day off, report as published and you're paid.
As someone on reserve, this has a chance to make a really big improvement in my QOL and pay. The SUO's being two days' work, block or better and other little improvements are huge to me. The pay raise, although not a lot, will still help tremendously. Despite whether or not you agree with how I feel about the TA, I encourage all who are eligible to vote, to do so.
11-21-2011, 05:57 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 802
As I said earlier, no one expected management to give a Piedmont contract. It's the first round, concessions have to be made for an agreement to be reached. However, I would prefer to fight for a better contract for new hires down the road than take my own immediate benefits now and then leave it still below industry standard for the forseeable future.
I went to one of the Cleveland shows and was not impressed. Two and a half hours of rambling, ridiculously specific examples, little citations of definitive benefit for the masses, and the typical ALPA rah-rah; then time for just a few questions (several of which were just answered with "trust us") before they hushed us along. I'm sorry, I don't have a lot of "trust" right now.
The wonderful part of the whole scenario is it doesn't matter what any of us argue on a message board...at ten AM tomorrow we can start voting, and within two weeks we'll have an answer. Things will be changing regardless, and we're all along for the ride.
I went to one of the Cleveland shows and was not impressed. Two and a half hours of rambling, ridiculously specific examples, little citations of definitive benefit for the masses, and the typical ALPA rah-rah; then time for just a few questions (several of which were just answered with "trust us") before they hushed us along. I'm sorry, I don't have a lot of "trust" right now.
The wonderful part of the whole scenario is it doesn't matter what any of us argue on a message board...at ten AM tomorrow we can start voting, and within two weeks we'll have an answer. Things will be changing regardless, and we're all along for the ride.
On Reserve, with this new contract I get 15 additional days off per year. (plus the 3 or 4 days a year that are the second day of a stand up..that is currently counted as a day off)
I played around with the numbers from last year when I was on reserve. Depending on the quality of my record keeping, I would have made over 95 hours each month, with some months over 105. Keep in mind that this doesn't even count the extra I would have gotten from block or better, as I have no way of knowing what that would have been.
I strongly suspect that most line holders will average over 90 hours with at least an extra day or two off per month.(remember...your deadhead will now bring you up to minimum quicker..or you can pad your line with it).Cle will probably average better than Ewr as their legs tend to be underblocked, and Ewr tends to over blocked.
That's just the pay stuff. In another area...try this scenerio:
Vote it down...no contract,ergo you are an at will employee(still). Mngmt sees that to get a contract voted in, it will cost them more. Time to just keep the ship moving while they contact all the arrayed forces available to bust the union (and there are plenty of them, with VERY deep pockets ,all anxious to put another spike in the heart of any attempt by worker bees to get a piece of the pie).Plenty of money available for such activity. So..start a new airline. (hire some of the current C5 pilots...get a new certificate...replace C5 and,viola...a new United Express carrier with none of those pesky peasants demanding more than crumbs.(and everyone left at C5 goes DirectTo the unemployment line). Another huge factor, besides the alterego clause of the contract, is that we would have a contract in the event of a buyout. Currently there is no protection if bought. With a contract we are at least going to get our say with it most likely going to arbitration. Without a contract, unless you want to pay the bills, we get what the aquiring party is willing to give.
For a first time contract, this is not terrible. It will probably bring in 10 to 20%+ more credit hours with more time off. Then multiply the added hours by the percentage in pay increase.
Think long and hard about voting this down. The alternative is not pretty.
Last edited by MaxQ; 11-21-2011 at 09:14 AM.
11-21-2011, 11:25 AM
#85
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 52
As an outsider looking in, that TA is horrible. If what you are currently working under is so much worse, why are you even there? I can't understand how anyone would voluntarily work for those types of rules and wages. Stop treating these small companies as a stepping stone, you're dragging us all down. If everybody got up and left, they would have to actually start paying competitively to attract people. This is a job, not a volunteer position.
11-21-2011, 03:58 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Errplanes
Posts: 367
From what I've heard, C5 actually used to be one of the best regionals to work for. Pay was not amazing but schedules were good and employees were treated well. On time bonuses more than made up for the lack of "regular" pay. Those days disappeared when they started transitioning to the Dash's, operations all moved to CLE, etc. etc. and the whole thing went downhill. Then after ALPA was voted in, management continued to underhandedly do everything in their power to keep the pilot's (and flight attendant's) QOL down as negotiating leverage.
CommutAir wasn't my first choice, but I don't necessarily regret my decision. I was off reserve in 2 months, held a line with 14 days off/weekends off after 5 months, and if things continue as they are, will upgrade in roughly 12-16 months. I'll have off for Thanksgiving and Xmas. Had I gone to any other regional, that would not be the case.
But that's only me, and I suppose I got pretty lucky here. I know "chasing the upgrade" can get you burned, but some of us are willing to take that risk. The TA's pay rates are nothing to get too excited about, but the change in work rules and how pay is calculated will be a huge improvement... if it's voted in. Unfortunately, there are a few "more seasoned" pilots that want to get back the airline they had 7+ years ago, and will vote "NO" until the contract is printed in gold ink.
So back to FloridaFlippper, while I understand where you're coming from, and have shared your view in the past, I've realized it's a lot easier to be a critic when you're watching from the sideline. The negatives of this TA being voted down far outweigh the lack of positives if it's voted in.
11-21-2011, 04:29 PM
#87
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
As an outsider looking in, that TA is horrible. If what you are currently working under is so much worse, why are you even there? I can't understand how anyone would voluntarily work for those types of rules and wages. Stop treating these small companies as a stepping stone, you're dragging us all down. If everybody got up and left, they would have to actually start paying competitively to attract people. This is a job, not a volunteer position.
In no way do I want this to be a "their flying vs our flying" but remember what they say about glass houses...
Last edited by The Juice; 11-21-2011 at 04:44 PM.
11-21-2011, 04:36 PM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 135
As an outsider looking in, that TA is horrible. If what you are currently working under is so much worse, why are you even there? I can't understand how anyone would voluntarily work for those types of rules and wages. Stop treating these small companies as a stepping stone, you're dragging us all down. If everybody got up and left, they would have to actually start paying competitively to attract people. This is a job, not a volunteer position.
11-21-2011, 07:59 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 961
Unfortunately none of us will ever see those days again, so here we are in 2011 with a chance to make things better for the guys down the road.
11-21-2011, 08:01 PM
#90
Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Tiki bar
Posts: 2,634
Yup. Just was talking about this today, the place used to be awesome. Day trips, lots of bases, kegs waiting for the last few flights. Then the Dashes showed up, bases consolidated, and finally ALPA got voted in and things rapidly fell downhill.
Unfortunately none of us will ever see those days again, so here we are in 2011 with a chance to make things better for the guys down the road.
Unfortunately none of us will ever see those days again, so here we are in 2011 with a chance to make things better for the guys down the road.
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