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Old 11-30-2011, 12:05 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Laxrox43
So...what do the pay rates look like...other beni's?
New pay rates effective 12/1/11 are:

First Officer
Year 12/1/2011 12/1/1012 12/1/2013 12/2/2014
1 $23.39 $23.62 $23.86 $24.10
2 $25.35 $25.60 $25.86 $26.12
3 $26.66 $26.93 $27.20 $27.47
4 $27.49 $27.76 $28.04 $28.32
5 $28.49 $28.77 $29.06 $29.35
6 $29.41 $29.70 $30.00 $30.30
7 $30.19 $30.49 $30.80 $31.10

Captain
Year 12/1/2011 12/1/1012 12/1/2013 12/2/2014
1 $41.82 $42.24 $42.66 $43.09
2 $43.21 $43.64 $44.08 $44.52
3 $45.08 $45.53 $45.99 $46.45
4 $46.56 $47.03 $47.50 $47.97
5 $48.03 $48.51 $49.00 $49.49
6 $49.19 $49.68 $50.18 $50.68
7 $50.60 $51.11 $51.62 $52.13
8 $51.90 $52.42 $52.94 $53.47
9 $53.24 $53.77 $54.31 $54.85
10 $54.62 $55.17 $55.72 $56.28
11 $55.98 $56.54 $57.11 $57.68
12 $57.26 $57.83 $58.41 $59.00
13 $58.48 $59.06 $59.66 $60.25
14 $59.67 $60.27 $60.87 $61.48
15 $60.73 $61.34 $61.95 $62.57
16 $61.77 $62.39 $63.01 $63.64
17 $62.82 $63.45 $64.08 $64.72
18 $63.78 $64.42 $65.06 $65.71
19 $64.57 $65.22 $65.87 $66.53
20 $65.33 $65.98 $66.64 $67.31

Year of longevity is on the left. Each anniversary date of the contract, you move to the next right column.

Other improvements include block or better pay and cancellation protection.

Min guarantee will change to 75 hours per month, and the bidding cycle will convert from the current 28 day period (13 per year) to a monthly (12 per year) bid cycle beginning July 2012.

Min days off will be 11 for lineholders and 10 for reserves until July when the bid cycle changes. Then it will be 12 and 11.

150% pay for extensions, reassignments
50% deadhead pay (currently none)

Per diem $1.45 ($0.20 increase)

And some other stuff.

Last edited by Crawl; 11-30-2011 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:12 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Laxrox43
So...what do the pay rates look like...other beni's?
I'll give the spark notes version:

Pay, Capt, year 1-4:
$41.82, 43.21, 45.08, 46.56
FO, 1-4:
$23.39, 25.35, 26.66, 27.49

Override for Q300, 2/hr for FO, 5/hr Capt

Block or better, 75 hour gaurantee per month with monthly bidding starting July 1st next year (we're currently on 28 day bids).

12 days off for lineholders, 11 for reservists.

Cancellation pay. 50% deadhead pay.

$1.45/hr per diem.

14.5 hour duty day, except they can tack on an hour to deadhead back to base. 8.5 hour min rest overnights.

Seniority in new hire classes by age (currently drawn randomly).

Once per year commuter policy. Got rid of the hotel credits system we had.

Active until Dec 1, 2015.

Anything else in particular you're curious about?


EDIT: Crawl beat me to it.
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:12 PM
  #123  
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Crawl and DirectTo,

Congrats on the new contract. I know it's probably not what folks were hoping for, but it is definately a step in the right direction. Good luck to you both!
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:25 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by CAPTAINPCL
I'm not saying they are forsure going into bankruptcy, but rather it would be a much more likely outcome than Corp buying another airline. There is going to be some MAJOR training costs this next year from the latest 11-09.
Pinnacle negotiated a right to reset rates with Delta, as a result of the renegotiated agreement with ALPA, and those new rates will take effect in 2012. Pinnacle is also set to receive a lump sum payment for increased expenses associated with the Mesaba aquisition. Such expenses include pay, training, per diem and benefits.

Also, revenue rates will reset again in January, 2013 and will be based on the cost structure at that time. After the January 2013 rate reset the rates will again be adjusted annually based on inflation.

I imagine Bankruptcy isn't in Pinnacle's near term.
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:49 AM
  #125  
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I don't mean to rain on the parade, but why would you guys vote yes on the first contract brought to you when it is so far below industry standard? If the answer is simply because its better than what you had then shame on you. 50% for deadhead pay? 14.5 hour duty day? Really? The captain pay rates are still on par with some of the larger regionals jet fo pay. Sorry but I just don't understand why you would take their first offer when its so far below the rest. Isn't rule number one in negotiating that you never take the 1st offer? Its never the best they have and this certainly wasn't the companies best offer. Sounds like you guys did exactly what they were hoping you would. Once per year commuter clause? Seriously???

Air Canada Jazz Q-100 Pay Scale 2011

Captain FO

Year 1 $77 $41
Year 2 $79 $46
Year 3 $81 $54
Year 4 $83 $56
Year 5 $85 $58
Year 6 $87 $61
Year 7 $89 $63
Year 8 $92 $65
Year 9 $94 $66
Year 10 $96 $68
Year 11 $99 $70
Year 12 $101 $70
Year 13 $104 $70
Year 14 $106 $70
Year 15 $109 $70
Year 16 $111 $70

Thats for the Q-100. You guys have 200s and 300s right? And you voted yes? REALLY?

Btw, anything over 85 hours a month is paid at 150%. Just sayin....this is the best Dash-8 flying contract out there right now. Thats what you're supposed to use as your base line, right?

Last edited by JetBlast77; 12-01-2011 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Added pay rates
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:09 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by JetBlast77
Thats for the Q-100. You guys have 200s and 300s right? And you voted yes? REALLY?
Please, do rain on the parade. Sadly 79% of the pilot group bought into the spin. Most of the guys I talked to that voted "yes" talked about immediate benefits (block or better, 'some' deadhead pay, schedule changes, etc.) with no care for the future of the pilot group. 79% of the pilots will throw the future pilots under the bus in order to pocket a little something extra for now.

I voted no because I didn't like the language. Too much "make an effort to" and "will reasonably attempt". The pay rates a joke; work rules, a joke. The management itself is much a joke as well, so I don't know why I expected the pilot group or the MEC to be any different. Importantly though, this contract locks pilots in for four years. FOUR YEARS. That means at least ten new hire classes that we have stuck with substandard wages and work rules, something that will continue to drag down the industry and our fellow pilots at other airlines.

I hate to do it within currently a few months of upgrade, but I'm looking for another regional. I'd rather be at a carrier where the pilot group looks out for one another and has some foresight to fight for themselves and the future of their pilot group and pilots at other airlines.
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Old 12-01-2011, 02:25 PM
  #127  
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Yup you guys got $&@?ed. As a forrmer C5 guy I can say the only option is to jump ship. This contract is a joke. Yes it helps the guys on reserve fair enough, but it ****ed every one else. It has set back our whole industry. Go team ALPA......
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:42 PM
  #128  
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I would like to take the time to apologize to the rest of the industry!! I could only vote NO once!!!!
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:12 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Jimbo33
I imagine Bankruptcy isn't in Pinnacle's near term.
I don't know about that...SM has mentioned the financial pangs that the pilot contract has caused the company in a few of his memos. Did he lead Frontier into Ch 11?
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:30 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by JetBlast77
I don't mean to rain on the parade, but why would you guys vote yes on the first contract brought to you when it is so far below industry standard? If the answer is simply because its better than what you had then shame on you. 50% for deadhead pay? 14.5 hour duty day? Really? The captain pay rates are still on par with some of the larger regionals jet fo pay. Sorry but I just don't understand why you would take their first offer when its so far below the rest. Isn't rule number one in negotiating that you never take the 1st offer? Its never the best they have and this certainly wasn't the companies best offer. Sounds like you guys did exactly what they were hoping you would. Once per year commuter clause? Seriously???

Air Canada Jazz Q-100 Pay Scale 2011

Captain FO

Year 1 $77 $41
Year 2 $79 $46
Year 3 $81 $54
Year 4 $83 $56
Year 5 $85 $58
Year 6 $87 $61
Year 7 $89 $63
Year 8 $92 $65
Year 9 $94 $66
Year 10 $96 $68
Year 11 $99 $70
Year 12 $101 $70
Year 13 $104 $70
Year 14 $106 $70
Year 15 $109 $70
Year 16 $111 $70

Thats for the Q-100. You guys have 200s and 300s right? And you voted yes? REALLY?

Btw, anything over 85 hours a month is paid at 150%. Just sayin....this is the best Dash-8 flying contract out there right now. Thats what you're supposed to use as your base line, right?
As much as I would love to have a contract similar to theirs, it is unrealistic to assume that we could have achieved something close to those rates/work rules. You are also referencing a Canadian carrier.

I'm not saying that the contract we did get is anything to brag about, but do you really expect a 170-180 member pilot group of a privately owned turboprop regional, currently with no contract, in the middle of a struggling economy, to negotiate industry leading wages and work rules?

Had we voted down the TA, it would likely be years before we would even have the opportunity to vote on another one. At which point we could have already been 2+ years into the one we voted down. Four years from now, when negotiations open up again, we take it further. At that point at least we will have a contract to fall back onto. For now we've made some much needed improvements that we can build upon later down the road.
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