Screwed

The ignorance is in believing that it will somehow affect the leadership in the union. They will still get their FPL and other expenses paid. Life will still be great for them.

The ignorant believe that 2 small pilot groups will affect the leadership perks. The only thing that will happen is they will have slightly less work! Deep down they probably want you to leave.

ExtraMedium

Thanks man! I’m not certain, but regarding health care I think the website was last updated in November.

aviatorhi

Perhaps. I hadn't seen that particular language, which seems reasonable as a "bullet point". Perhaps the "all-call" on Monday will shed some light on what's been going on. In other news can someone put screwed back in his cage?

Dutch80

Same here Dubious. But remember any and all reasonable statements are dutifully ignored by 1224 and their lackeys, don’t hold your breath awaiting an honest or insightful response.

RedWhiteAndBlue

Prediction: monday conference call....

“Company refuses to negotiate....blah blan blah”.

Screwed reveals the ignorance he accuses us of in his post above.

Droopy

Wow, I'm not on here to attack others. I thought Dubious's response to my thoughts was a nice, honest response.

But, since it appears you want a response, here it is (from someone who is far from a 1224 lackey...)

I received no less than 3 emails from [email protected] addressed to all 1224 members announcing the elections as well as reminding us of them. I have confirmed with a couple friends at K4 that they received them as well. (I don't know anyone at Omni to ask the same question of.) I do know several folks at my company who complained about not receiving them. Most had not updated their email addresses and a couple lost them to spam filters...

In addition to the emails, you can still see all the notices sent to each individual 1224 airlines membership AND POSTED ON THE WEBSITE by logging on and looking. They are still there if you go to committees and look under 1224 Local Executive Board. They were posted around the middle of September.

Not meant as an attack. I was at K4 when the contract BS was happening. I understand. But instead of online histrionics, I prefer to educate myself and at a minimum ensure my opinion is heard (vote).

I don't whether I agree with K4's vote to change representation, nor do I know whether I would support the same at Omni. I DO KNOW that I was and continue to be surprised that there was no opposition to DW during the election. Additionally, I'm not at either K4 nor Omni, so you would not hear my opinion online anyway. It's their future, their responsibility, and their decisions. Regardless how they decide, I honestly wish them well...

Dutch80

Nothing personal or aimed at you Droopy, so please don’t take it as such. I wasn’t even expecting a response from you.

No. My comments as stated, were directed to the 1224 bosses and their lackeys, and you are far from that.

You see THEY have ignored, and continue to routinely ignore any question or topic that doesn’t fit THEIR narrative and THEIR interests.

Consider yourself exceptionally lucky to have received no less than 3 emails from them.

RedWhiteAndBlue

Applying basic logic, I would submit that “failure to represent” at 1224 is “failure to represent”. Would anything change if 5 more names were presented and they lost? It sounds like the membership who IS PAYING SALARIES at 1224 should just be forced to accept “failure to represent” and/or “conflict of interest” just because no one else ran.

The stupidity of this is shocking.

fraannk

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Frank Paden

stickwiggler

Dear Sirs,

Yesterday, I participated in the "call in" to hear the update on the status of negotiations. After about 30 minutes, I just hung up- not in anger but in sadness and frustration.

A few things are clear. First, we are not getting a contract anytime soon. In fact, it would appear that you are planning to take us down a path which GUARANTEES we will not have a TA in the Spring, Summer or even maybe this year.

Next, that despite several pilots imploring you, dare I say begging you, for detailed information on where we stand, what items remain, what the company has offered and how far apart we remain, you (the collective you) insist on the 1224 hazy, vague non answer, answer.

This just won't stand. These are fair questions. You are either elected Reps or appointees acting on their behalf, and have an obligation to keep us informed.
When the first caller asked, in no uncertain terms, "what items remain?" and the answer was mentioning a few items and then having it drug out that it is "10-12 items" it was disappointing, but that's fine. It is what it is. We're pilots- tell us what's wrong so we can deal with each item and keep the greasy side down.

But, when asked what those other items were, responding that "you left your notes at home" for an information call scheduled a week in advance, is simply unacceptable.

If that sounds unappreciative or as if I, and others do not recognize the enormous sacrifice of your personal time, I apologize. We do. We are thankful for it. But, this is our livelihoods and our future so straight talk is required.

Right about now, some hard core Union guy (who most likely doesn't even work for us) is firing up his keyboard to say "your negotiating commitee speaks for you" or some other tired union bumper sticker slogan.

And that brings me to my final point, ABSOLUTE honesty and integrity.
By all acounts, our NC call leader is a good and honorable man. Experienced OAI pilot, a U.S. Veteran, and all around good guy.
But, the constant drumbeat of "management is lying" is unproductive, unprofessional and most of all, doesn't always pass the smell test.
I'll give you an example; it was repeated, again, that during the last negotiation that the "company just got up and walked out of the negotiations" and then Crippen says " this isn't true because I informed them at the beginning that I had to leave but left my team in place to continue negotiations". The pilots are left with 2 stories and are forced to pick who is being honest.
If the argument is that they weren't real negotiations without Crippen there, than say THAT. Don't give any wiggle room to management to sew a seed of doubt.

Here's another example. Crippen accused the Union of "moving the goal post" and as expected, the Union called him a liar. But, in the call yesterday, nearly in the same breath, you said "we are constantly looking at contracts of other carriers as they happen and are adjusting our demands accordingly". (I'm paraphrasing my notes of the call)

Guys, that is the very definition of "moving the goal post"!
The worst part is, that is a fair, legitimate argument to make!! Don't just call our management liars, PERSUADE the pilot group why this is a reasonable course of action. If management doesn't want to negotiate while the industry continues to compensate an ever shrinking talent pool with better and more lucrative contracts, then they do so at their own peril.

Some have said (again, mostly people who do not work here) that the division in our pilot group is the product of management propaganda.

There maybe some truth to that but I know that in my case and many of the people I have spoken with, it is the lack of communication and information that has many of us concerned that our elected representatives are dividing their allegiance between the hopes of the pilot groups and the demands of the Union.

I implore both the company and the union to not go down this path. No one wins.