Omni Air Pilot Negotiations update
01-16-2018, 08:40 PM
#731
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 67
And cargopirate joins in ALSO ADMITTING exactly what is happening.
Atlas isn’t ABX. ABX isn’t Omni. Omni isn’t Kalitta. Kalitta isn’t Atlas....and on and on....get it?
Another day gone.....Atlas’s bar tab to Omni grows higher. Omni pilots are you all enjoying financing “Atlas”?
Atlas isn’t ABX. ABX isn’t Omni. Omni isn’t Kalitta. Kalitta isn’t Atlas....and on and on....get it?
Another day gone.....Atlas’s bar tab to Omni grows higher. Omni pilots are you all enjoying financing “Atlas”?
01-16-2018, 11:51 PM
#732
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,409
I’m at Atlas pilot. I have heard zero serious discussions about Omni negotiations adversely affecting ours. As brother teamsters we hope you get something good and soon. Period.
We were happy when Kalitta got their contract too.
We were happy when Kalitta got their contract too.
01-17-2018, 12:59 AM
#733
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Window Seat
Posts: 1,430
The name Atlas is getting thrown around a lot... but it's really meant in reference to DW and (apparently) some bitter "burn the place to the ground" individuals. Most line pilots at all these places really aren't to blame for the political elements at play.
01-17-2018, 02:14 AM
#734
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,409
For what it’s worth I think a lot of the political stuff across the board is less substantial than these forums would let on. People generally suck at keeping quiet. If something ever went past an informal conversation or one person’s pet project to a serious effort it’d be discussed all over our layovers.
Either way I hope things get better at Omni fast. I’m gonna go back to lurking on these forums.
01-17-2018, 02:30 AM
#735
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 34
If you can't see the importance of pilot group unity in contract negotiations, then you are the problem. The fact that you are reading anything sent directly from the company shown a severe lack of unity and understanding of contractual negotiation strategies that airline managements use to undermine the talks.
Atlas management has sent stuff out to the pilot group. We forwarded all their letters to one guy who bundled them up and sent them right back to the company.
Are you implying that Atlas pilots would not support the OMNI pilot group in a strike? You think that part is irrelevant or do you think that OMNI pilots simply wouldn't want to take their negotiations all the way to a strike?
This is why the "second tier" is the "second tier".
And in no way am I implying that you are our pawns. The fact is that all airline pilots are the pawns of airline management when we are not united. So the pilots at OMNI aren't anybody's pawns - except for OMNI management when we don't work together.
And explain exactly how Atlas pilots are getting such a great deal by following your negotiations. Is it because we are looking at such a great TA right now (hint: we're probably years away from that)? Is it because we're supporting fellow pilot groups when they go on strike? Is it because we have stuck together so well and flown our contract to the letter that Atlas has taken us to court? Twice?
Each airline pilot group is dependent on all the other airlines' pilots when it comes to negotiations not only to support a strike, but to help raise the bar for each other. This has been the history of airline pilot negotiations and is the reason that we enjoy the gains that we have today. If we stay united, it will be the reason that we enjoy more gains in the future.
Fracturing this unity is a sure way to stagnation of these gains.
Atlas management has sent stuff out to the pilot group. We forwarded all their letters to one guy who bundled them up and sent them right back to the company.
Are you implying that Atlas pilots would not support the OMNI pilot group in a strike? You think that part is irrelevant or do you think that OMNI pilots simply wouldn't want to take their negotiations all the way to a strike?
This is why the "second tier" is the "second tier".
And in no way am I implying that you are our pawns. The fact is that all airline pilots are the pawns of airline management when we are not united. So the pilots at OMNI aren't anybody's pawns - except for OMNI management when we don't work together.
And explain exactly how Atlas pilots are getting such a great deal by following your negotiations. Is it because we are looking at such a great TA right now (hint: we're probably years away from that)? Is it because we're supporting fellow pilot groups when they go on strike? Is it because we have stuck together so well and flown our contract to the letter that Atlas has taken us to court? Twice?
Each airline pilot group is dependent on all the other airlines' pilots when it comes to negotiations not only to support a strike, but to help raise the bar for each other. This has been the history of airline pilot negotiations and is the reason that we enjoy the gains that we have today. If we stay united, it will be the reason that we enjoy more gains in the future.
Fracturing this unity is a sure way to stagnation of these gains.
We do show solidarity and are unified for the most part. Company's divide and conquer tactic in reality is not working no matter how hard they are trying. What we are seeing on this forum is a very small segment of our pilot group being vocal and posting constantly making it seem as if we are being divided. In actuality, they are by far a minority pushing for an instant change by stirring up the pot with Atlas nonsense. The majority of the pilot group is behind the committee in demanding industry standard contract and more than likely in time we will get it.
01-17-2018, 05:27 AM
#736
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 67
“Atlas” is a real person. “Atlas” is in charge of 1224. “Atlas” attends the real negotiations at Omni. “Atlas” has the real ability to say “no, I will not allow Omni pilots to see a contract that I don’t approve of”. “Atlas” said ok to 16 days with day 17/18 premium pay IF negotiations open in 18 months at the previous session. This was ridiculous, unreasonable and designed to ellicit a no response from the company in my opinion. “Atlas” has been described as saying “I am not going to allow Omni pilots to see this because they would vote for it”. Because “Atlas” doesn’t want it? Is this appropriate? One must ask what role “Atlas” had in demanding business class domestic travel at the last moment. One then must also ask what role “Atlas” played in describing JC leaving the last session to us as “walking away from the table”-disingenious at best.
Atlas is in trainwreck negotiations that are described in previous posts here by Atlas pilots as being years away. I hope Atlas pilots get all they desire and soon. I support you folks but I would never dream of using you to get something for us. Thats not right. In fact it would be plain wrong. As wrong as doing the same to us. Pattern bargaining using a wide brush is wrong. Everything doesnt apply to everyone. This is common sense.
Even though it appears “Atlas” is functioning legally my point is that its wrong if what I think is happening in fact is. By the tone of some Atlas pilots who post here it seems like those particular few think it is and support it. By the non-answer “industry standard” tone of the teleconference and everything above I also think its likely. The simplest answer is usually the correct one-a well known principle in physics problem solving.
My question to Omni pilots: do you really think this is appropriate? If the majority of us don’t think it is then we are in real trouble. If you do, then my comments are a complete waste of time and it would be fine to refer to me as an idiot and I would accept it.
I would love to see a poll.........
Atlas is in trainwreck negotiations that are described in previous posts here by Atlas pilots as being years away. I hope Atlas pilots get all they desire and soon. I support you folks but I would never dream of using you to get something for us. Thats not right. In fact it would be plain wrong. As wrong as doing the same to us. Pattern bargaining using a wide brush is wrong. Everything doesnt apply to everyone. This is common sense.
Even though it appears “Atlas” is functioning legally my point is that its wrong if what I think is happening in fact is. By the tone of some Atlas pilots who post here it seems like those particular few think it is and support it. By the non-answer “industry standard” tone of the teleconference and everything above I also think its likely. The simplest answer is usually the correct one-a well known principle in physics problem solving.
My question to Omni pilots: do you really think this is appropriate? If the majority of us don’t think it is then we are in real trouble. If you do, then my comments are a complete waste of time and it would be fine to refer to me as an idiot and I would accept it.
I would love to see a poll.........
Last edited by RedWhiteAndBlue; 01-17-2018 at 05:30 AM. Reason: Spelling
01-17-2018, 06:35 AM
#737
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 36
We do show solidarity and are unified for the most part. Company's divide and conquer tactic in reality is not working no matter how hard they are trying. What we are seeing on this forum is a very small segment of our pilot group being vocal and posting constantly making it seem as if we are being divided. In actuality, they are by far a minority pushing for an instant change by stirring up the pot with Atlas nonsense. The majority of the pilot group is behind the committee in demanding industry standard contract and more than likely in time we will get it.
You are so dead wrong when you make the statement “The majority of the Pilot group is behind the committee”.
You and others would see this if our Spinless EXCO leader would step up and do his elected duty and officially communicate with the Pilot group by the way of a poll to see the percentage that is tired of this game and want to see the document in contract language that they have had for a while now.
If this is too much to ask then the Pilot group is screwed.
01-17-2018, 12:41 PM
#738
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Part 121, 135 & Military background
Posts: 379
Were it not for the fact that your negotiations directly affect our negotiations, AND that we are ready, willing, and able to honor an OMNI strike were you to be released for self help, Atlas pilots probably wouldn't have much more than a passing interest in the status of your contract.
I suppose that someday we may return to an era of solidarity and brotherhood within airline pilot unions, but it doesn't seem to be happening right now... Until then though, I guess we'll never see the big contractual gains that should be possible with the current state of the economy and the airline industry.
Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.
8
I suppose that someday we may return to an era of solidarity and brotherhood within airline pilot unions, but it doesn't seem to be happening right now... Until then though, I guess we'll never see the big contractual gains that should be possible with the current state of the economy and the airline industry.
Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.
8
just not put on the vest.
Brave.
01-17-2018, 01:16 PM
#739
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 69
We do show solidarity and are unified for the most part. Company's divide and conquer tactic in reality is not working no matter how hard they are trying. What we are seeing on this forum is a very small segment of our pilot group being vocal and posting constantly making it seem as if we are being divided. In actuality, they are by far a minority pushing for an instant change by stirring up the pot with Atlas nonsense. The majority of the pilot group is behind the committee in demanding industry standard contract and more than likely in time we will get it.
With all due respect, you are either terminally ill informed or you suffer from an acute disconnect with reality.
Do you talk to other pilots much ?
The majority, and I mean overwhelming majority of pilots I have spoken with, both fleets, want to see the contractually compliant version of the company proposal. Come to think of it other than you, 450 and one or two other guys, I can’t name anyone that wants to continue dragging this process any further. That’s a fact.
Yes we are united and yes we have been behind our NC all the way. In fact this is what made, many of the substantial improvements to the existing contract possible.
But now is time to move the next step, put in the finishing touches and start ripping the benefits of this new agreement.
Or maybe not ? Well, an easy way to find out. VOTE.
Why are you, and more importantly 1224 so opposed to allowing a VOTE ?
I’ll venture a guess. They’re afraid. Because they know, it will pass. And they don’t want it to pass. Simple.
By the way, I think you also know it would pass. As to why you wouldn’t want it, I have no idea.
01-17-2018, 02:19 PM
#740
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 224
Bigfoot
You are so dead wrong when you make the statement “The majority of the Pilot group is behind the committee”.
You and others would see this if our Spinless EXCO leader would step up and do his elected duty and officially communicate with the Pilot group by the way of a poll to see the percentage that is tired of this game and want to see the document in contract language that they have had for a while now.
If this is too much to ask then the Pilot group is screwed.
You are so dead wrong when you make the statement “The majority of the Pilot group is behind the committee”.
You and others would see this if our Spinless EXCO leader would step up and do his elected duty and officially communicate with the Pilot group by the way of a poll to see the percentage that is tired of this game and want to see the document in contract language that they have had for a while now.
If this is too much to ask then the Pilot group is screwed.
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