aviatorhi

It's blatantly obvious at this point in my book and leaves me severely disappointed in a few people.

fraannk

Well folks, it is coming to the end of another month.

Another 1.5 million dollars that the negotiating team won for us at the bargaining table has now been successfully transferred back to the company because they can't close this deal.

Be patient. A few more months and Omni will "cave" on the last few things Atlas is fighting for. The pilots haven't paid enough yet it seems.

I know each and every member of the negotiating team and can't believe they are not seeing the big picture here. Maybe they don't read this board.

Frank Paden

BigfootCapo

Bigfoot (in mouth),

So, you're confused on why people are advocating to accept the current proposal in principle and go ahead and hammer out language vs trying to achieve your undefinable "industry standard contract"?

Well, several people have explained that in no uncertain terms, you're just choosing not to listen.

The problem is, what is an "industry standard contract" anyway?

Are you suggesting that we wait until Omni ups their offer to match Delta pay?

Should we continue to step over good money and increased contract benefits so we can hold out for American's pension?

I mean, you're the one who's talking about industry standards...

Let me guess, you're not suggesting THESE standards... you're just suggesting that the standard be raised to YOUR DEFINITION of what "industry standard" is.

There are two glaring facts:

1. There is no such thing as industry standard.

Every airline has a different contract and people are always trying to play one up on someone else.

To lose 10, 50 or 100k dollars just to say "we have the best contract" for a month or two is just silly--
Especially considering the fact that Omni will NEVER be able to match legacy pay.

Our business model and it's ability to generate revenue is simply smaller.
The average Omni pilot flies 34 hrs/mo. Pilots at other carriers often work twice that.

Now, if you work at Atlas and you believe that the success of your contract is contingent upon what we get, then of course it makes sense for you to advocate for us to hold out. That cost you nothing.

2. Omni is unique in this industry. There used to be other carriers who did the same thing as we do but they're all out of business now. To compare us to larger carriers, freight operators with scheduled service is just apples and oranges.

If that's what you want, i hear their hiring. God speed.

You and your ilk keep saying there is nothing to vote on. Jesus, this gets old.

I, and many others, who have been through several union contract negotiations are completely familiar with the process.

No one is advocating to vote on a proposal!!!

The people who are advocating for "contract now" are simply suggesting that we accept the proposal in theory and THEN hammer out the language.

It's fine if you disagree with that. You want to hold out for whatever in the hell you consider "industry standard" then great. You'll get your vote and i guess we can put you down for a "NO".

To make it crystal clear for you, the people advocating for "contract now" believe that the majority of pilots would vote YES and that our wishes as a pilot group are being usurped by the minority.
Why? one might ask?

I don't know. The arguments have all been made here;

*1224 is preventing it because they are looking out for their $ cow (Atlas) interests at our expense.

*Ego. Some people are so butt hurt that they are looking for revenge.

* Some truly believe Omni can afford it (even though not one of us has a clue about how much $ this place makes).

For me, none of that matters. I look at the cost/benefit analysis of where the offer is, what some want to hold out for and how much it will cost us. This decision is pure math for many of us.

It's really not that hard to understand.[/QUOTE]


I am suggesting that you are purposely turning your head the other way or are oblivious and inexperienced enough in the airline world not to know any better. If you have to ask what the industry standard is, than I would guess it is the latter. But if curious enough, pick up an actual contract from a comparable airline and start comparing. Then, pick up another one and start comparing. Then, another one. Soon enough you are going to start to see a pattern. The same perk that is present in every contract is known as an industry standard perk. It is standard because everyone has it and it is widely accepted as the norm. We are obviously either missing or show inadequate on a few of those. Some are minor and of less importance while others are a big deal and need to be figured out. This is of course achieved through further negotiating rather than folding and accepting. In any case, afterwards, you will probably realize that the contract altogether and overall is below what other similar outfits have. Therefore, you can conclude that you have a contract that is below an industry standard.

Dutch80

Big Capo you stated:
“We are obviously either missing or show inadequate on a few of those. Some are minor and of less importance while others are a big deal and need to be figured out. “

Can you name some of the ones you’re referring to as big deal Bigcapo ?

Big deal to the Omni Pilots by the way. We’re not too concerned with other airlines at the moment.

ExtraMedium

My understanding is that our biggest outstanding item is health care. Omni says it will match the Teamsters Team Care plan, but it won’t put the benefits or employee cost in writing. It would have the option to change that any time it wanted. This is a huge deal to me.

I don’t trust the company! I was here through the last negotiations, and I’ve seen the empty promises the company makes. Take the FA’s. They aren’t a month into their contract and they’re already feeling the pain of the lies by the company negotiators. The “program” FA’s were promised certain override pay that they’d enjoyed pre-contract, and it was taken away instantly upon ratifying their TA. Some have also been staying two to a room... something they were promised wouldn’t happen.

I realize we aren’t flight attendants, and that we will have all things better than they do, but my point is that the company is verifiably dishonest, and I have zero reason to trust them over our negotiators.

And as far as seeing the company offer in full, my understanding of that is that the NMB has asked the negotiators not to disclose it to us.

Am I frustrated by the lack of communication from the NC? Sure! But I’m even more frustrated by the companies hard line that they’re done negotiating.

FL450

Finally someone gets it!

Same info I was given a few months ago while talking with a NC member. If it isn’t written in black and white it’s grey and Omni’s interpretation of grey matter has done nothing for pilots over the last 6 years.

Dubiousbrother

Extramedium and 450-

If you don't trust the company because of past experiences, fair enough, I understand that.

However, Does it raise suspicion or concern for you that so many Omni crewmembers did not receive notice or ballots concerning executive council positions recently?

How about the fact that the Kalitta pilots are moving forward with IBT decertification?

Dutch80

There you go Extra Med. That's what I'm talking about. Specific references. I wonder why our NC has such difficulty with those.

Anyway, I don't know much about the Teamsters Care plan or other health choices that maybe available to us, but I agree 100% with you. Whatever the plan ends up being, it has to be spelled out in black and white. Zero wiggle room. No doubt that is a legitimate concern.

As far as trusting the company, I also sympathize with you. Can't say that I fully trust them myself (trust the Teamsters and 1224 much less by the way), but for now, I don't know that either can do much to change my opinion.
And of course the FAs have their problems but I suppose they will have to take care of that themselves.

Back to matters at hand, other than the medical, anything else ?
I'm trying to put together a letter addressed to the EXCO and NC.

(Not that it matters. They only seem to answer to 450)

stickwiggler

]


[QUOTE/]
I am suggesting that you are purposely turning your head the other way or are oblivious and inexperienced enough in the airline world not to know any better. If you have to ask what the industry standard is, than I would guess it is the latter. But if curious enough, pick up an actual contract from a comparable airline and start comparing. Then, pick up another one and start comparing. Then, another one. Soon enough you are going to start to see a pattern. The same perk that is present in every contract is known as an industry standard perk. It is standard because everyone has it and it is widely accepted as the norm. We are obviously either missing or show inadequate on a few of those. Some are minor and of less importance while others are a big deal and need to be figured out. This is of course achieved through further negotiating rather than folding and accepting. In any case, afterwards, you will probably realize that the contract altogether and overall is below what other similar outfits have. Therefore, you can conclude that you have a contract that is below an industry standard.[/QUOTE]

BFC,

I remember my first day in aviation when plugging in my headset. The instructor said "the little plug is for your Mic and the big one for hearing because you should listen twice as much".

That was sound advice; it would have served you well... because I already addressed your points in my post.

First, to address your accusation that I'm "too inexperienced in the airline world".

I was a mechanic from 1988-1990 when I went to flight school in the military. I flew in the Army for 5 years and in 1997 was a union represented airline pilot.

So that makes 20 years of airline experience and 30 years of of aviation experience.

Go ahead and whip yours out; we'll see who's is longer.

In your infinite experience and wisdom, you suggest i "pick up a contract of a comparable airline"

OK, let's do that.

Which airline is comparable? (Clearly, you turned YOUR head to the part where i addressed that)

And, as another responder to your post asked, "what specific perks are you talking about?" which you failed to respond to.

Oh, and please start your response by stating who you work for.

ExtraMedium

I do wonder how many Omni crew members didn’t receive notices and ballots. I received mine. The group of guys I converse with regularly did as well. I’m not saying people are lying or didn’t get theirs, I just wonder if it’s wide spread. I didn’t get my orange lanyard a while back because I hadn’t updated my mailing address. Who knows?!

I’m honestly not familiar with Kalitta’s situation. I’ll reach out to some friends there and try and get the scoop.