Omni Air Pilot Negotiations update
11-09-2017, 09:14 AM
#441
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Thrill Seat
Posts: 467
Stick,
I don't post often but everytime someone has a differing opinion doesn't question the validity of their employment at Omni. YES, I work here and have worked here a few years beyond your seniority. No this isn't my first 121 contract negotiation, it's the 3rd but first IBT.
Mitch C and our CEO have put two letters out in the past 24 hours that explain exactly why i say let our negotiators do their elected job. Both Mitch and Jeff have stated:
"We can get together any time to clarify the language of our offer. We can’t get together with the mediator to negotiate until spring/summer. Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer."
"Our" being the key word in their phrase of what is being offered. In the attached memo with Jeff's latest email it mentions that
"Many of the current CBA sections remain unchanged"
this is the same thing our union has said repeatedly iver the last 2 years. In fact this was one of the main reasons IBT walked away from the take it or leave it offer.
I personally don't trust a company composed (Yes i said composed). One in which they blatantly say in the recent email
"Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer. That is a huge difference concerning the timing of a deal. Every time we get together to negotiate, the IBT adds something new and we get further apart – not closer together."
that they are unwilling to negotiate with IBT. A 3rd take it or leave it with contract language? I'm not twisting words, this is copy paste from our companyinbox emails.Again everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i say let the union continue to do their job.
BTW, even if 57 pilots out of the active pilots wabted to vote that's still only 30% of the pilot group.
Fly safe.
I don't post often but everytime someone has a differing opinion doesn't question the validity of their employment at Omni. YES, I work here and have worked here a few years beyond your seniority. No this isn't my first 121 contract negotiation, it's the 3rd but first IBT.
Mitch C and our CEO have put two letters out in the past 24 hours that explain exactly why i say let our negotiators do their elected job. Both Mitch and Jeff have stated:
"We can get together any time to clarify the language of our offer. We can’t get together with the mediator to negotiate until spring/summer. Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer."
"Our" being the key word in their phrase of what is being offered. In the attached memo with Jeff's latest email it mentions that
"Many of the current CBA sections remain unchanged"
this is the same thing our union has said repeatedly iver the last 2 years. In fact this was one of the main reasons IBT walked away from the take it or leave it offer.
I personally don't trust a company composed (Yes i said composed). One in which they blatantly say in the recent email
"Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer. That is a huge difference concerning the timing of a deal. Every time we get together to negotiate, the IBT adds something new and we get further apart – not closer together."
that they are unwilling to negotiate with IBT. A 3rd take it or leave it with contract language? I'm not twisting words, this is copy paste from our companyinbox emails.Again everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i say let the union continue to do their job.
BTW, even if 57 pilots out of the active pilots wabted to vote that's still only 30% of the pilot group.
Fly safe.
11-09-2017, 09:32 AM
#442
Jumpseat driver
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: any available seat
Posts: 70
That is a grossly misrepresented number. Based on personal feedback I’d say it’s more of an inverse ratio but in the words of Jason Mantzoukas, “I’m saying it and you’re thinking about it, so it’s a real thing.”
Last edited by boschpilot; 11-09-2017 at 09:53 AM.
11-09-2017, 03:35 PM
#443
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 53
In the interest of full disclosure, I do not work for Omni therefore I do not have a dog in this fight.
Now having said that, it’s important to have clear and concise language, because any ambiguity will result in management taking advantage of you. If you look at your current contract you know this to be true. Someone mentioned something about the medical benefits and the company could change this without any input from the pilot group. This language MUST be bullet proof so I urge you to get this nailed down.
You may recall last year when Kalitta was still in negotiations the company bypassed the union and submitted an offer directly to the pilots. A bunch of guys only saw the pay rate and did not really read the details, especially the particulars of the medical benefits. The language they offered would have given management the ability to raise the cost of insurance to anything they wanted, effectively negating any real pay raise.
You elected a negating team so keep the faith with them, and whatever you decide I wish you well.
Now having said that, it’s important to have clear and concise language, because any ambiguity will result in management taking advantage of you. If you look at your current contract you know this to be true. Someone mentioned something about the medical benefits and the company could change this without any input from the pilot group. This language MUST be bullet proof so I urge you to get this nailed down.
You may recall last year when Kalitta was still in negotiations the company bypassed the union and submitted an offer directly to the pilots. A bunch of guys only saw the pay rate and did not really read the details, especially the particulars of the medical benefits. The language they offered would have given management the ability to raise the cost of insurance to anything they wanted, effectively negating any real pay raise.
You elected a negating team so keep the faith with them, and whatever you decide I wish you well.
11-09-2017, 03:49 PM
#444
Sitting and scratching...
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: Upright
Posts: 371
Stick,
I don't post often but everytime someone has a differing opinion doesn't question the validity of their employment at Omni. YES, I work here and have worked here a few years beyond your seniority. No this isn't my first 121 contract negotiation, it's the 3rd but first IBT.
Mitch C and our CEO have put two letters out in the past 24 hours that explain exactly why i say let our negotiators do their elected job. Both Mitch and Jeff have stated:
"We can get together any time to clarify the language of our offer. We can’t get together with the mediator to negotiate until spring/summer. Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer."
"Our" being the key word in their phrase of what is being offered. In the attached memo with Jeff's latest email it mentions that
"Many of the current CBA sections remain unchanged"
this is the same thing our union has said repeatedly iver the last 2 years. In fact this was one of the main reasons IBT walked away from the take it or leave it offer.
I personally don't trust a company composed (Yes i said composed). One in which they blatantly say in the recent email
"Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer. That is a huge difference concerning the timing of a deal. Every time we get together to negotiate, the IBT adds something new and we get further apart – not closer together."
that they are unwilling to negotiate with IBT. A 3rd take it or leave it with contract language? I'm not twisting words, this is copy paste from our companyinbox emails.Again everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i say let the union continue to do their job.
BTW, even if 57 pilots out of the active pilots wabted to vote that's still only 30% of the pilot group.
Fly safe.
I don't post often but everytime someone has a differing opinion doesn't question the validity of their employment at Omni. YES, I work here and have worked here a few years beyond your seniority. No this isn't my first 121 contract negotiation, it's the 3rd but first IBT.
Mitch C and our CEO have put two letters out in the past 24 hours that explain exactly why i say let our negotiators do their elected job. Both Mitch and Jeff have stated:
"We can get together any time to clarify the language of our offer. We can’t get together with the mediator to negotiate until spring/summer. Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer."
"Our" being the key word in their phrase of what is being offered. In the attached memo with Jeff's latest email it mentions that
"Many of the current CBA sections remain unchanged"
this is the same thing our union has said repeatedly iver the last 2 years. In fact this was one of the main reasons IBT walked away from the take it or leave it offer.
I personally don't trust a company composed (Yes i said composed). One in which they blatantly say in the recent email
"Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer. That is a huge difference concerning the timing of a deal. Every time we get together to negotiate, the IBT adds something new and we get further apart – not closer together."
that they are unwilling to negotiate with IBT. A 3rd take it or leave it with contract language? I'm not twisting words, this is copy paste from our companyinbox emails.Again everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i say let the union continue to do their job.
BTW, even if 57 pilots out of the active pilots wabted to vote that's still only 30% of the pilot group.
Fly safe.
11-09-2017, 08:13 PM
#445
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Part 121, 135 & Military background
Posts: 379
Stick,
I don't post often but everytime someone has a differing opinion doesn't question the validity of their employment at Omni. YES, I work here and have worked here a few years beyond your seniority. No this isn't my first 121 contract negotiation, it's the 3rd but first IBT.
Mitch C and our CEO have put two letters out in the past 24 hours that explain exactly why i say let our negotiators do their elected job. Both Mitch and Jeff have stated:
"We can get together any time to clarify the language of our offer. We can’t get together with the mediator to negotiate until spring/summer. Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer."
"Our" being the key word in their phrase of what is being offered. In the attached memo with Jeff's latest email it mentions that
"Many of the current CBA sections remain unchanged"
this is the same thing our union has said repeatedly iver the last 2 years. In fact this was one of the main reasons IBT walked away from the take it or leave it offer.
I personally don't trust a company composed (Yes i said composed). One in which they blatantly say in the recent email
"Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer. That is a huge difference concerning the timing of a deal. Every time we get together to negotiate, the IBT adds something new and we get further apart – not closer together."
that they are unwilling to negotiate with IBT. A 3rd take it or leave it with contract language? I'm not twisting words, this is copy paste from our companyinbox emails.Again everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i say let the union continue to do their job.
BTW, even if 57 pilots out of the active pilots wabted to vote that's still only 30% of the pilot group.
Fly safe.
I don't post often but everytime someone has a differing opinion doesn't question the validity of their employment at Omni. YES, I work here and have worked here a few years beyond your seniority. No this isn't my first 121 contract negotiation, it's the 3rd but first IBT.
Mitch C and our CEO have put two letters out in the past 24 hours that explain exactly why i say let our negotiators do their elected job. Both Mitch and Jeff have stated:
"We can get together any time to clarify the language of our offer. We can’t get together with the mediator to negotiate until spring/summer. Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer."
"Our" being the key word in their phrase of what is being offered. In the attached memo with Jeff's latest email it mentions that
"Many of the current CBA sections remain unchanged"
this is the same thing our union has said repeatedly iver the last 2 years. In fact this was one of the main reasons IBT walked away from the take it or leave it offer.
I personally don't trust a company composed (Yes i said composed). One in which they blatantly say in the recent email
"Please notice that your committee wants to negotiate and not clarify the language of our offer. That is a huge difference concerning the timing of a deal. Every time we get together to negotiate, the IBT adds something new and we get further apart – not closer together."
that they are unwilling to negotiate with IBT. A 3rd take it or leave it with contract language? I'm not twisting words, this is copy paste from our companyinbox emails.Again everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i say let the union continue to do their job.
BTW, even if 57 pilots out of the active pilots wabted to vote that's still only 30% of the pilot group.
Fly safe.
I've never said, nor implied that a differing opinion implies someone doesn't work here; that's disingenuous at best.
Simply asking the question "do you work here?" to ascertain the motivation of the author is not a question nor an assertion of validity;
Jesus! It's just a fair question!
As for your Bona fides, excellent!
You certainly have every right to voice your opinion and clearly have the experience to make an educated assessment on where the contract is and how it will affect you personally.
See what I did there? Or, more accurately, didn't do.... I didn't hurl insults, question your motivation or make disparaging assessments of your intellect or morality. Something the hard core union crowd seems incapable of.
As for your comment on the past two letters, I agree with you.
It was a bit heavy handed and it would be intellectually dishonest to called anything other than a take it or leave it offer. We agree.
Had I been their attorney, I would have advised them to concentrate on the willingness to negotiate certain items BUT at the same time, address the moving goal post.
From what I've been able to ascertain, both seem true.
I agree you are not twisting their words.
I would however, disagree that there is an absence of negotiations.
Look how far it's come.
As for your 57 number, I'm not sure where that came from. Please explain; I'm willing to learn.
But, if you take a running tally of comments since you and I have engaged each other, there has been a 3 to 1 disadvantage of people supporting your position.
I realise of course that this is a small sampling, but they each seem to suggest that they believe they are speaking not only for themselves, but for other pilots they've flown with.
I'm completely ok with the fact we disagree and i applaud you stating your case and would NEVER attack you for it.
For me, it's simple; are the small remaining gains worth the cost?
For me the answer is "no" for you, "yes".
Great! We each get a vote. That's how this works...
We each advocate a position, we vote and then we live with the consequences of the group decision.
That's all we're asking for. As I've said repeatedly if you're right and I'm wrong it will get voted down.
You can say "I told you so" and i will gladly admit I'm wrong.
But, if it passes, then you must confess that it was the will of the majority of the pilot group.
Fair?
11-09-2017, 08:21 PM
#446
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Part 121, 135 & Military background
Posts: 379
In the interest of full disclosure, I do not work for Omni therefore I do not have a dog in this fight.
Now having said that, it’s important to have clear and concise language, because any ambiguity will result in management taking advantage of you. If you look at your current contract you know this to be true. Someone mentioned something about the medical benefits and the company could change this without any input from the pilot group. This language MUST be bullet proof so I urge you to get this nailed down.
You may recall last year when Kalitta was still in negotiations the company bypassed the union and submitted an offer directly to the pilots. A bunch of guys only saw the pay rate and did not really read the details, especially the particulars of the medical benefits. The language they offered would have given management the ability to raise the cost of insurance to anything they wanted, effectively negating any real pay raise.
You elected a negating team so keep the faith with them, and whatever you decide I wish you well.
Now having said that, it’s important to have clear and concise language, because any ambiguity will result in management taking advantage of you. If you look at your current contract you know this to be true. Someone mentioned something about the medical benefits and the company could change this without any input from the pilot group. This language MUST be bullet proof so I urge you to get this nailed down.
You may recall last year when Kalitta was still in negotiations the company bypassed the union and submitted an offer directly to the pilots. A bunch of guys only saw the pay rate and did not really read the details, especially the particulars of the medical benefits. The language they offered would have given management the ability to raise the cost of insurance to anything they wanted, effectively negating any real pay raise.
You elected a negating team so keep the faith with them, and whatever you decide I wish you well.
That is something we all agree on. If you read many of the posts, that caveat is always included.
it sounds something like this "if the language is good, then this is an acceptable offer".
It is not a matter of trust in the NC to review/write the language; it is a concern that the 1224 is forcing our NC to negotiate items that were not part of it's original mandate to assist another group, at our expense.
11-09-2017, 10:44 PM
#447
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 53
Newb2,
That is something we all agree on. If you read many of the posts, that caveat is always included.
it sounds something like this "if the language is good, then this is an acceptable offer".
It is not a matter of trust in the NC to review/write the language; it is a concern that the 1224 is forcing our NC to negotiate items that were not part of it's original mandate to assist another group, at our expense.
That is something we all agree on. If you read many of the posts, that caveat is always included.
it sounds something like this "if the language is good, then this is an acceptable offer".
It is not a matter of trust in the NC to review/write the language; it is a concern that the 1224 is forcing our NC to negotiate items that were not part of it's original mandate to assist another group, at our expense.
I completely understand your point, it seems you are experiencing the same obstacles we did during our negotiations. Hopefully something positive will present itself soon, and you will have a good contract.
Best of luck to all you guys you deserve better.
11-10-2017, 10:03 AM
#448
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 29
Well, after participating in today's Union conference call I understand something.
The pilot's are going to get a great contract. Unfortunately, it is now in the status of diminishing returns and what the Union is fighting for is not nearly worth the price.
As soon as the pilot's have paid the price for what the Union is asking, Omni will gladly give it to them. Minus handling fees of course.
I also didn't hear from any pilots from other airlines chiming in on what we need to do. In fact, all I heard from people calling in was "let us vote."
Frank Paden
The pilot's are going to get a great contract. Unfortunately, it is now in the status of diminishing returns and what the Union is fighting for is not nearly worth the price.
As soon as the pilot's have paid the price for what the Union is asking, Omni will gladly give it to them. Minus handling fees of course.
I also didn't hear from any pilots from other airlines chiming in on what we need to do. In fact, all I heard from people calling in was "let us vote."
Frank Paden
11-10-2017, 10:27 AM
#449
Just Plane Stupid
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Captain
Posts: 461
Well that was disappointing and a poor presentation of the Union position.
11-10-2017, 11:30 AM
#450
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Does it matter?
Posts: 22
It’s bascially “we are stuck in the mud and have no idea when we will get out” that the union position is. I understand both sides’ positions and both have stated that they would be willing to talk when the other side comes forward. So it begs the question “which side makes the next move?” That question was somewhat asked not in those exact words and wasn’t answered.
The union answers seemed a bit practiced or scripted in my opinion, but I expected that. The thing that I don’t like from both parties is the play hard to get attitude. Wait for the next move from the other guy. At this rate it will be a while, but my bet is the company will have to make th next move because they are the ones losing business. With that said it would be nice though if the union would make the next move and attempt to keep this going. It wasn’t said today or based on their emails that they have or are willing to until the company comes forward and states they are willing to “negotiate”.
The union answers seemed a bit practiced or scripted in my opinion, but I expected that. The thing that I don’t like from both parties is the play hard to get attitude. Wait for the next move from the other guy. At this rate it will be a while, but my bet is the company will have to make th next move because they are the ones losing business. With that said it would be nice though if the union would make the next move and attempt to keep this going. It wasn’t said today or based on their emails that they have or are willing to until the company comes forward and states they are willing to “negotiate”.
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