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Old 08-03-2017, 12:13 PM
  #231  
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I wish I could be half as eloquent as you stick. Well done.

What is it that people like to say nowadays
"Mike drop " ??

Indeed.
Dutch80 is offline  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:25 PM
  #232  
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Some advice for our more militant members:

The informed, mature convictions from a great many of us routinely go ignored. We know our rights and possess the courage to dare to maintain them. We are observant and have the capacity to evaluate for ourselves.

YOU are the ones dividing this membership as much as the company. The aggressive Brown shirt style tactics will NOT unite our membership. You must be more receptive to the moderate voices.

More than once, if someone expresses a desire for a vote or for more information, they are immediately slandered for they’re opinion. Typically not based on merit or facts, but simply that they must be a stooge,scab,sellout etc.

Beyond lacking strategical value, there is no moral basis or virtue tied to these tactics.
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:29 PM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by atpcliff
I was looking at the website, the one Omni mgmt put out trying to directly go to the pilots and convince them how great their new offer is. I am posting about what their info said in regarding commuting.

Omni mgmt said they can't afford to DH their pilots in Business Class, because blah, blah, blah. At Atlas, we have Business Class or better, for DH when it is outside the 50 states (ex: DTW-YYZ, FRA-DXB, Puerto Rico-ORD, etc.). I believe that the Kalitta language is Biz Class or better, when any leg is over 5 hours in scheduled block duration.

My last pattern I did 6 Operating Legs, 6 DH Legs, 3 of which were not within the 50 states, so those 3 were in Business Class. We DH a lot, sometimes more DH legs than Operating Legs. Atlas has had no problem recording big profits, even while DH crews all over the place, often in Business Class.

If Omni is trying to claim that DH in Biz Class is too expensive because they are a "small" airline, then they should offer an ever BETTER contract, so they can attract a LOT of new pilots, keep them, and grow.

Good luck to ATI in negotiating. I hope you get a great new contract.

Namaste...
Cliff... do us all a favor... if you don't REALLY no the answer ... don't guess... its 3 hours international BTW.
HercDriver130 is offline  
Old 08-03-2017, 04:42 PM
  #234  
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I'd like to attempt to explain why I support our union negotiators... this is just my point of view and mine only. I'm not trying to making the case that anyone else is right or wrong, or address any specific questions.

I've worked for Omni since before we had the current contract, so I've been through this before. Our current CBA is full of holes that the Company has exploited to the greatest of their ability. And now our president is telling us how he's going to try and alleviate some of our pain by better travel/customer service as he's just discovered how badly we are handled in that department. Give me a break. Why haven't they stepped up before they got themselves into this staffing issue? Why haven't we gotten Known Crew Member? Why haven't we been given most direct travel? Why have we had to argue about having air conditioning at hotels in the summertime? They don't care about our well being all of the sudden, they care that they're losing money, and now they're in panic mode.

Our negotiators on the other hand are men that I know to have integrity, and what I believe to be our best interests at heart. They are captains here, and have been here for many years, and I don't see evidence that leads me to believe any conspiracy that we're being used as pawns for Atlas.

That said, I too am frustrated with being in the dark as to specifics of offers, and I'm also tempted by the company offer... but the company offer, while it has a bunch of shiny bullet points, leaves out anything that we may not like. Anything that may be filled with holes.

Feel free to harass me or attempt to tell me I'm blindly following, or can't think for myself, blah blah... you won't hurt my feelings.

TL;DR: I trust the men negotiating our contract on the union side more than those on the company's side.
ExtraMedium is offline  
Old 08-03-2017, 04:46 PM
  #235  
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The company has, for years, found every way to avoid the intent of the contract. They have made our lives as close to miserable as is possible. What makes you think that in the past week they have had a change of heart and now want to be our friends? A high-dollar website created by some marketing firm is hardly an offer or a contract. They are making an offer that they know they won't have to fulfill as it is being marketed to us.

"Pay for pain" is what they call the extra cash they are offering for longer travel days. I am sure we won't see any extra cash and they will just break up the travel day into two. Furthermore, they have removed mention of window or aisle seat. Remember, we work for the same people we worked for last week, last month, and under the current contract. This is only one example in which we can see through their marketing scam.

You do not expect your Senator or Representative to tell you everything that is offered or going on in Washington DC. You have elected them to represent you. The same holds true with our negotiating committee. They speak for us and disclosing information or discussions may be a bad thing. Consider what the company has done. They have disclosed their offer. It is going to be very difficult if not impossible for them to offer any less at this point.

Right now Omni is attempting to convince 180 or so pilots to vote for a contract. There is no contract to vote for. Omni should be spending its time convincing 3 guys, our negotiating committee, not all of us.

I don't trust a lot of what is on their propaganda website. I've taken the time to answer some of their FAQs as I see them...

FAQ:
"Please arrange a meeting with the negotiators we appointed via IBT Local 1224. I have contacted them and am aware the company has not reached out for a face-to-face negotiation ahead of the next meditated session in late August."

My response:
We’re not interested in meeting with the IBT until our propaganda has taken full effect. We will know when to meet when our ground swell of zombie pilots overwhelm the negotiating committee, and force them to beg for mercy and kiss our rings.

FAQ:
"Why haven’t the IBT and Omni met more frequently?"

My response:
Come on guys, weren’t you paying attention last December when we threatened to pull out of direct bargaining and force mediation if you didn’t agree to our ****ty December package? We specifically told you then that noncompliance would result in “tedious mediated bargaining stretching over several years.”

Promise kept. We filed for mediation in January, and didn’t do a thing for five randomly selected months in 2017.

FAQ:
"Why can’t you just match Kalitta’s contract?"

My response:
We’re cheap. If you want Kalitta’s contract, go to Kalitta.

FAQ:
"Why can’t we have business class travel since pilots for some other carriers have it?"

My response:
See above answer, but replace Kalitta with “Kalitta, Atlas, ABX, etc.”

FAQ:
"What are you specifically doing to make my travel experience better?"

My response:
We’re committed to improving the window or aisle seat language currently in the CBA, which we’ve successfully used for the past several years to assign you to middle seats.

Beyond that, you’ll be excited to hear that “Direct routing shall be the default standard” and that we’ll be taking other important, unilateral moves; provided that we don’t have to write those commitments into a CBA and actually agree to follow them. For example, we have not proposed, and have previously rejected direct routing language.

If you’re still after business class seating, see above FAQ.

I am sure others can run with answers to their FAQ too. Remember we work for the same people that have used every inch of the contract to their advantage for the past 6+ years. Their propaganda website is transparent and I can see that while they may increase my pay there won't be much else I'll be getting. Likely, many other quality of life aspects will be headed down.
Drywallguy is offline  
Old 08-03-2017, 05:07 PM
  #236  
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Here is some more excellent Q&A to ponder:

If a Crew-member elects to travel past established travel duty limits, does he still qualify for the pay?

Absolutely. We intend to handsomely compensate pilots who engage in self-abuse, up to, but not including, reimbursement for chiropractor and psychiatrist bills.


Can the company break up a Travel Duty Day and avoid payment by parking us in a hotel for a few hours?

Park you for a few hours? No.

We will, however, avoid payment by traveling you part way, parking you in a hotel for 10 hours, and then traveling you the rest of the way. Using this “win-win” method, we save money and you spend more time in exciting hotels next to refugee camps.


Why can I not put anything below 60 hours in the calculator?

If you convince your negotiating committee to agree to a lower guarantee, we will happily update the calculator.


Please explain Short Call pay in more detail?

We’ve agreed to the union’s proposal on short call. All efforts will be made under a new CBA to keep you on Long Call, which is cheap as free.


Is Home Basing going away?

No. Unless we involuntarily assign you to “Scheduled Service.” In that case, then your new “home base” will become somewhere in “the European Union, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China or South Korea.” You shouldn’t be worried about this because, we won’t do that until we’ve followed the rigorous process of “conferring with the Union” and then doing what we want. That’s the same rigorous process that we’ve used to prevent undesirable 90-day TDYs to Madrid/Bolivia.


What is the process for me to get a vote?

We recommend that you wake up each morning, look at yourself in the mirror and repeat the following: “I am Pilot. But I don’t deserve to be paid or treated like a Pilot. Because I’m not good enough, I’m not smart enough, and dog-gone-it, people don’t like me.” Repeat daily until you lose self-respect. Then contact your negotiating committee.
Hillywood69 is offline  
Old 08-03-2017, 05:10 PM
  #237  
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Oh yes, park in a hotel.

They want to give you 10 hours. So, it takes 2 hours to get off a commercial airplane, clear immigration, grab your baggage, clear customs then get to the hotel. I'd say 2 if the hotel is at the airport. Then, you need to be out of the hotel at LEAST 2 hours before your commercial flight out. 2.5 is more realistic. So, you end up with 6 hours behind a door at best. Travel is only getting worse under Omni's proposed plan. And where did they have language about window, aisle, or economy plus?
Drywallguy is offline  
Old 08-03-2017, 05:21 PM
  #238  
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I think every pilot at Omni has one foot out the door, and the other foot on a banana peel.
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:46 PM
  #239  
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So the company has shown its hand. For better or worse is out there for everyone to see. Enough said.

I had fervently hoped for a response from the union, in specific form, not a philosophical diatribe about “my committee speaks for me” or some other esoteric ramblings.

So far nothing. Fair enough.

At what point them, do the Omni pilots have the right to demand a vote ? It is elementary. If the company proposal is inadequate it will be voted down. Is that simple. As far as I can tell OAI has addressed most all the import points in their offer ( I don't care about uniform allowance or telephone credit cards )

And by the way home basing is not going away. It doesn't fit Omni’s model. How do I know ? It was explained to me by the IBT, during the first contract negotiations, when I expressed that concern.

In the absence of specifics from the union I have to assume there aren't any. Why won’t they allow us to vote then ?

Makes no sense. Unless some other forces are at work.
Dutch80 is offline  
Old 08-03-2017, 06:16 PM
  #240  
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And for those of us that continue to bring up Kalitta, last I checked, they are looking to get out of 1224.

They don't seem happy with the eboard shenanigans.
Dutch80 is offline  
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