UPS Furlough Over
04-09-2014, 01:16 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 362
After commuting to EWR for 9 years(since 2005), with no movement forwards for four more, I figured ANC might be a nice change.
04-09-2014, 01:56 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
I am at the same seniority after 7 years. You are crying about being the same after 4 years.
At UPS any new hire no matter what age should not count on upgrading at all. Many pilots at UPS who have over 10 years in will never upgrade.
You would leave UAL after being there 7 years to come to UPS? I hope you never make left seat at UAL. It shows poor judgement and I would not want my family on your plane.
At UPS any new hire no matter what age should not count on upgrading at all. Many pilots at UPS who have over 10 years in will never upgrade.
You would leave UAL after being there 7 years to come to UPS? I hope you never make left seat at UAL. It shows poor judgement and I would not want my family on your plane.
I would definitely consider coming to Brown from a passenger airline. It's true upgrades are slow, but FO pay surpasses many left seat legacy jobs. Keep in mind there was no hiring from 9/11/01 until 11/2004 and from 2007 until now. The next new hire at UPS will upgrade at roughly the same time (2-3 years most likely) as the last hire from 2001--13 years sooner most likely.
It's important to recognize the pros and cons of this job. UPS doesn't hate its pilots. Maybe the old UPS did (pre-1999). The current management culture views us as a number....exactly as they should. We've been through the consolidations of Worldport, which drastically reduced flights, the retirement of 3 man airplanes, the replacement of smaller jets (727s) with larger ones (767s), and the worst economic recession in 75 years.
I think it's a good bet to come to UPS AND CERTAINLY SOMETHING FOR ANYONE TO CONSIDER.
04-09-2014, 03:07 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 362
What I was trying to say is that there will be no "real" movement for me for at least the next 4 years. Four years from now I'll be in the exact same spot I was last year. If I'm a new hire and in a class of one, and they stop hiring, I'll have the same movement at UPS that I would have had if I stayed at CAL/UAL.
And then upgrade will be years away from then, on the most junior airplane, in the most junior base, on reserve.
I don't actually get to "benefit" from the merger until 2027 - all the while making less money than I would if I were FO at UPS under your current contract.
Financially, UPS FOs make more than UAL 737/320/757 captains.
So there is no financial penalty to coming to UPS and waiting over 10+ years to upgrade (I'm only 37), while at the same time making more than I would as a wide body international FO at UAL (minus the first year pay cut of course, which my wife and I have been saving for ever since I got the pool letter).
Between the money UAL is burning at an alarming rate, and the capital improvements that UAL didn't make 1999-2012 that we are now having to do, and an incredibly heavy debt load; I believe UAL, financially, cannot continue as we currently are, and no one seems to have a plan on how to proceed.
Add onto that, the CAL/UAL pilot tensions (probably won't end till after I retire), dealing with PAX and FAs, and I'm just a number here at UAL too BTW - it's not like the company comes and treats me any different than a liability, employees around here are not assets they're liabilities;
Add all that up, and I think UPS would still be a nice change.
Yes it will be 15 years to upgrade -if ever, and yes I'll just be a cog in a bigger machine, but I'm ok with that.
Hopefully, I'll see you on an overnight sometime soon and I can buy you a beer.
04-09-2014, 05:00 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
"It's important to recognize the pros and cons of this job. UPS doesn't hate its pilots. Maybe the old UPS did (pre-1999). The current management culture views us as a number....exactly as they should."
If your management views the crew force as merely a number, that is a huge mistake, that I can't imagine a pilot agreeing with. I do not think that ours at FedEx does, nor should they. We have a tremendous amount of control over what can cost or make the company money---whether the freight gets there on time. The fact that we are conscientious, mission oriented, looking ahead, watching the whole picture, preventing delays and catching mistakes, driving the freight to get there on time, does make us rightfully more than a number. It takes a lot of time and training to replace us, and we can go above and beyond to make things happen...or not.
I'm assuming that if the freight doesn't get there on time at UPS, you also have to refund the money. There is a reason that we are prima donnas, and paid as such. While I feel that our management certainly makes some miscalculations, I believe they have the common sense to consider us as more than just a number. Perhaps because most of them have been FedEx Captains.
If your management views the crew force as merely a number, that is a huge mistake, that I can't imagine a pilot agreeing with. I do not think that ours at FedEx does, nor should they. We have a tremendous amount of control over what can cost or make the company money---whether the freight gets there on time. The fact that we are conscientious, mission oriented, looking ahead, watching the whole picture, preventing delays and catching mistakes, driving the freight to get there on time, does make us rightfully more than a number. It takes a lot of time and training to replace us, and we can go above and beyond to make things happen...or not.
I'm assuming that if the freight doesn't get there on time at UPS, you also have to refund the money. There is a reason that we are prima donnas, and paid as such. While I feel that our management certainly makes some miscalculations, I believe they have the common sense to consider us as more than just a number. Perhaps because most of them have been FedEx Captains.
04-09-2014, 07:05 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
"It's important to recognize the pros and cons of this job. UPS doesn't hate its pilots. Maybe the old UPS did (pre-1999). The current management culture views us as a number....exactly as they should."
If your management views the crew force as merely a number, that is a huge mistake, that I can't imagine a pilot agreeing with. I do not think that ours at FedEx does, nor should they. We have a tremendous amount of control over what can cost or make the company money---whether the freight gets there on time. The fact that we are conscientious, mission oriented, looking ahead, watching the whole picture, preventing delays and catching mistakes, driving the freight to get there on time, does make us rightfully more than a number. It takes a lot of time and training to replace us, and we can go above and beyond to make things happen...or not.
I'm assuming that if the freight doesn't get there on time at UPS, you also have to refund the money. There is a reason that we are prima donnas, and paid as such. While I feel that our management certainly makes some miscalculations, I believe they have the common sense to consider us as more than just a number. Perhaps because most of them have been FedEx Captains.
If your management views the crew force as merely a number, that is a huge mistake, that I can't imagine a pilot agreeing with. I do not think that ours at FedEx does, nor should they. We have a tremendous amount of control over what can cost or make the company money---whether the freight gets there on time. The fact that we are conscientious, mission oriented, looking ahead, watching the whole picture, preventing delays and catching mistakes, driving the freight to get there on time, does make us rightfully more than a number. It takes a lot of time and training to replace us, and we can go above and beyond to make things happen...or not.
I'm assuming that if the freight doesn't get there on time at UPS, you also have to refund the money. There is a reason that we are prima donnas, and paid as such. While I feel that our management certainly makes some miscalculations, I believe they have the common sense to consider us as more than just a number. Perhaps because most of them have been FedEx Captains.
You guys feel the love by being treated well. We realize the only thing we will ever get from UPS is a paycheck and benefits. We are a number to them and nothing more or less.
04-09-2014, 07:49 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MD CA
Posts: 705
Seinfeld. I've watched your post over the years. My summation is your a ring knocker management want be. You have no clue. This place blows and always will. And I'm a Captain and been here since 94.
You never answer questions when you know your wrong. Again, just earlier. What facts were incorrect. He was spot on. Yes you can live in the wasteland city for 30 years they call Louisville and let the working bees work and think your doing okay. But that's the peak. And that is really lame. Ups will always be a turd place. Sorry. But it's true. Actually, they may not buy another new airplane. Ever.
You never answer questions when you know your wrong. Again, just earlier. What facts were incorrect. He was spot on. Yes you can live in the wasteland city for 30 years they call Louisville and let the working bees work and think your doing okay. But that's the peak. And that is really lame. Ups will always be a turd place. Sorry. But it's true. Actually, they may not buy another new airplane. Ever.
04-09-2014, 08:23 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
Seinfeld. I've watched your post over the years. My summation is your a ring knocker management want be. You have no clue. This place blows and always will. And I'm a Captain and been here since 94.
You never answer questions when you know your wrong. Again, just earlier. What facts were incorrect. He was spot on. Yes you can live in the wasteland city for 30 years they call Louisville and let the working bees work and think your doing okay. But that's the peak. And that is really lame. Ups will always be a turd place. Sorry. But it's true. Actually, they may not buy another new airplane. Ever.
You never answer questions when you know your wrong. Again, just earlier. What facts were incorrect. He was spot on. Yes you can live in the wasteland city for 30 years they call Louisville and let the working bees work and think your doing okay. But that's the peak. And that is really lame. Ups will always be a turd place. Sorry. But it's true. Actually, they may not buy another new airplane. Ever.
Let me gets this straight. UPS sucks? Louisville sucks? Being a pilot at UPS sucks? Why don't you quit? Why do you throw the "you wanna be mgt" card down?
We are in negotiations. I get that. I won't perpetuate the absurdity that I hate my life though. UPS is a great job working for the worst people. Louisville is a great city. I wish the hub had been placed in Nashville, but it's a good community in the suburbs. Louisville proper blows, but it's nowhere nearly as bad as Memphis or other similar sized cities.
Are we expanding and buying airplanes right now? Of course not. We just went through the worst recession in 75 years and have already replaced the 727, DC-8, and 747-200.
Do yourself a favor and go find something that makes you happy.
04-09-2014, 08:35 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
Qwetyuihgffg
Fact. Delta to purchase 50 wide bodies
Fact. Delta is hiring 300 a yr
Fact delta is growing and ceo' s mission is to make the airline the biggest and the baddest in the world.
Ups.
Fact. We barely calling back 44 guys after 4 yrs
I agree.
Fact. There no expansion or A/C orders in fact it's echoed several times by the ceo and cfo NO CAPITAL EXPENDITURE.
True. However, it surprised everyone when they announced the 747-400 orders and the additional 767s in 2006. My point is UPS maintains infosec as well as any company in the world. The NURPS don't even know until things are announced by Atlanta.
FACT.Shrinking airline and 15 to 18 yr stagnation.
We will have added 44 pilots to the active roster in a 90 span this spring. We have a young crew force for sure, but the next guy hired will upgrade 10 years sooner than those a few hundred numbers senior.
Fact. Management continuous effort to do away with us and finding ways to farm away our jobs.
as stated before, the system efficiencies are maximized, 3 man planes have been replaced, and the smaller 727s have already been replaced by much larger 767s. We effectively traded 2-3 727s for 1 767. That's a lot less pilots required. I guess we conceivable could go 2 for 1 on the 757s with something else larger, but I don't see that happening. We are in much better shape as a pilot group than we have been since 2007. I realize that absolutely sucks for those of us junior and especially those hired in 2007 and furloughed, but it's still the truth.
Put the pipe down bro and be happy . You're Hired By Ine The Best Carrier Out There With A Good Future And pay, Stay Where U R And Dont Look back.
Fact. Delta is hiring 300 a yr
Fact delta is growing and ceo' s mission is to make the airline the biggest and the baddest in the world.
Ups.
Fact. We barely calling back 44 guys after 4 yrs
I agree.
Fact. There no expansion or A/C orders in fact it's echoed several times by the ceo and cfo NO CAPITAL EXPENDITURE.
True. However, it surprised everyone when they announced the 747-400 orders and the additional 767s in 2006. My point is UPS maintains infosec as well as any company in the world. The NURPS don't even know until things are announced by Atlanta.
FACT.Shrinking airline and 15 to 18 yr stagnation.
We will have added 44 pilots to the active roster in a 90 span this spring. We have a young crew force for sure, but the next guy hired will upgrade 10 years sooner than those a few hundred numbers senior.
Fact. Management continuous effort to do away with us and finding ways to farm away our jobs.
as stated before, the system efficiencies are maximized, 3 man planes have been replaced, and the smaller 727s have already been replaced by much larger 767s. We effectively traded 2-3 727s for 1 767. That's a lot less pilots required. I guess we conceivable could go 2 for 1 on the 757s with something else larger, but I don't see that happening. We are in much better shape as a pilot group than we have been since 2007. I realize that absolutely sucks for those of us junior and especially those hired in 2007 and furloughed, but it's still the truth.
Put the pipe down bro and be happy . You're Hired By Ine The Best Carrier Out There With A Good Future And pay, Stay Where U R And Dont Look back.
04-10-2014, 04:52 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
L'il,
It's always a pleasure to read your drivel. One can only imagine what crap jobs you've worked before you got to UPS, such that you actually believe you're now working at a great place. It must be difficult to keep those rose-colored glasses up to your eyes for all this time. As well, your logic as to why you're working at such a great place, stinks to high heaven. You always say things like "I don't see that happening", which infers that you're actually in the know, while at the same time saying things like: "The NURPS don't even know until things are announced by Atlanta." How is that possible (that you know but they don't)? But then I guess you're much better connected than anyone else there. Also I always laugh when you mention stuff like: "How is it that I've never flown with anyone who even remotely has that opinion?" I guess it's because you seem to only fly with yourself, because if you'd bother to look around, most guys (at UPS) like the money, but hate the job and the company, like my old classmates who are still there and whom I'm in contact with.
Anyway, keep it up as I can always count on you for a good laugh. You make my day. Thanks.
It's always a pleasure to read your drivel. One can only imagine what crap jobs you've worked before you got to UPS, such that you actually believe you're now working at a great place. It must be difficult to keep those rose-colored glasses up to your eyes for all this time. As well, your logic as to why you're working at such a great place, stinks to high heaven. You always say things like "I don't see that happening", which infers that you're actually in the know, while at the same time saying things like: "The NURPS don't even know until things are announced by Atlanta." How is that possible (that you know but they don't)? But then I guess you're much better connected than anyone else there. Also I always laugh when you mention stuff like: "How is it that I've never flown with anyone who even remotely has that opinion?" I guess it's because you seem to only fly with yourself, because if you'd bother to look around, most guys (at UPS) like the money, but hate the job and the company, like my old classmates who are still there and whom I'm in contact with.
Anyway, keep it up as I can always count on you for a good laugh. You make my day. Thanks.
04-10-2014, 07:44 AM
#60
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: On Food Stamps
Posts: 937
Cause I am sure your such joy to fly with? I see your making friends again with your BS. Keep smoking whatever it is you smoking cause you are definitely the minority opinion when it comes to Quality of life at UPS or anything else for that matter.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
