FDX Charters
03-01-2014, 05:30 PM
#331
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Crewmember
Posts: 1,396
God help us if we don't have a union that is willing to do the right thing.
ALPA does not care about the individual crew member, all it cares about it making sure the dues keep getting paid to ALPA national.
All agency shop does is keep ALPA from being accountable to its members.
If people were allowed to quit over this issue, it would have been fixed two years ago.
Since you can't quit, ALPA just shrugs their shoulders, or, in this case, calls you a whiner for calling the problem to their attention.
Is that the kind of union you really want to support?
Yes, it is us vs. them, but if us is only the lessor of two evils, than we haven't got much, have we?
03-01-2014, 05:38 PM
#332
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 32
-Alleged violations could be dispelled by the union if they communicated to us like requested, so I blame ALPA for this.
-ALPA's representatives have been dismissive, and they have told us that they will not enforce the Code of Conduct. I blame ALPA for this.
-I do not blame FedEx Management for anything unless CBA or security violations are being breached. Once again, we can only speculate if this is happening because ALPA refuses to communicate. FedEx is in the game to move freight and make money they do not have a code of ethics with us just a CBA.
03-01-2014, 06:48 PM
#333
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: 777 bound!
Posts: 238
03-02-2014, 12:35 PM
#336
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
If you guys think your union doesn't care, you are nuts. But if you really want to create a union that works with management to "enforce" discipline or investigate pilots, then you may be sorry what you get what you ask for.
I didn't like the words I got from some in ALPA in 2007. I ran and won office in 2008. After a term and some committee work I'm back to being a line pilot and concentrating on helping my wife run for office. However, if any of you want to initiate a recall, run for office, or otherwise make changes at ALPA I have done all that, and I'll let help you if you want. What I think you'll find, however, is the handful of pilots there are doing the very best they can for the rest of us, and I personally trust them.
I also know that sometimes when investigations are under way, you cannot always have or share all the facts. A few years ago my wife was part of group that asked for an audit of the Republican Party of Florida (RPOF) finances. It was obvious there was a rat. She and others forced a meeting in Feb of that year, and the natives came out with torches and pitchforks…but there was only silence after the chairman (Jim Greer) resigned. How could he get away with it? It was April of that year the cops showed up and hauled him off to jail. Justice came, but only after a detailed investigation. IMHO they didn't get all the rats, just the ones that were willing to clam up and not take down Charlie Crist in the process.
I think this is similar, personally. I think the cops are sifting through evidence. And I also think some of you are going to get a 5-10 number seniority bump in the next year. Can't prove it, and I may be wrong….but I think its about to go down…
So--I'd keep an eye on the culprits. But I wouldn't turn on my union yet. I think this is yet to play out..
I didn't like the words I got from some in ALPA in 2007. I ran and won office in 2008. After a term and some committee work I'm back to being a line pilot and concentrating on helping my wife run for office. However, if any of you want to initiate a recall, run for office, or otherwise make changes at ALPA I have done all that, and I'll let help you if you want. What I think you'll find, however, is the handful of pilots there are doing the very best they can for the rest of us, and I personally trust them.
I also know that sometimes when investigations are under way, you cannot always have or share all the facts. A few years ago my wife was part of group that asked for an audit of the Republican Party of Florida (RPOF) finances. It was obvious there was a rat. She and others forced a meeting in Feb of that year, and the natives came out with torches and pitchforks…but there was only silence after the chairman (Jim Greer) resigned. How could he get away with it? It was April of that year the cops showed up and hauled him off to jail. Justice came, but only after a detailed investigation. IMHO they didn't get all the rats, just the ones that were willing to clam up and not take down Charlie Crist in the process.
I think this is similar, personally. I think the cops are sifting through evidence. And I also think some of you are going to get a 5-10 number seniority bump in the next year. Can't prove it, and I may be wrong….but I think its about to go down…
So--I'd keep an eye on the culprits. But I wouldn't turn on my union yet. I think this is yet to play out..
03-02-2014, 01:47 PM
#337
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Maybe we get that impression because of the answers we are given when we ask direct questions. If they care, it doesn't show.
Whose recall did you initiate?
Why should we believe an investigation is underway? It would be very easy and zero threat for "the union" to state, "We are investigating this" instead of "Stop whining" or "stop hassling me."
.
.
03-02-2014, 02:10 PM
#338
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
I pushed for a chairman recall after age 60 before I was a rep. I pushed for another when NC was fired/resigned with no MEC input. I realize recall is a word that might rub you a bit raw, but I had nothing to with yours.
Why believe something is being done? Maybe somebody told somebody something was being done. Maybe they were lying. Maybe they wont do anything. Maybe they will. As I have no other option, I will fly the part of line that is not bought up or knocked out by vacation, and I will wait.
Why believe something is being done? Maybe somebody told somebody something was being done. Maybe they were lying. Maybe they wont do anything. Maybe they will. As I have no other option, I will fly the part of line that is not bought up or knocked out by vacation, and I will wait.
03-02-2014, 03:16 PM
#339
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 218
Just stumbled upon this thread, so excuse my ignorance of the process of picking up OT at FDX.
But has your Professional Standards Committee contacted these individuals about what is going on?
We had a similar situation at my airline regarding sports charters and it was resolved very quickly after a couple of phone calls.
But has your Professional Standards Committee contacted these individuals about what is going on?
We had a similar situation at my airline regarding sports charters and it was resolved very quickly after a couple of phone calls.
03-02-2014, 03:31 PM
#340
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
First, if I understand it correctly, there is a difference between "pushed for" and "initiated" -- the word which raised my eyebrows.
Here are a few of your posts regarding that "recall" effort, the effort which began with a petition and a solicitation of signatures. Of course, that's one way the ALPA President can be recalled, but not the procedure to recall an MEC Chairman.
5-09-2007
Dudes...if we want to send a signal we aren't satisfied, there are a ton of guys besides DW who can lead our MEC. He ain't a God. He's got experience, but if that expereince is working against the desires of 4000 guys then we need to find another guy.
I'm not anti-ALPA. I'm certainly not anti union. However--I am against anyone who won't listen to their constitutents. Give me info--don't tell me "what's best for me..."
Who wants to start the recall? I honestly think it can be forced if everyone is as irritated as I think they are.
Age 60--well...if we gotta. Retroactivety? Up yours. I'll be we can find at least ONE sharp, qualified, team player who would take that position to our MEC.
FYI...I join the walking wounded next week for back surgery, the sequel. I cannot go to MEM to vote but I can certainly email with the best of them...
5-12-2007
I'm still on the fence on whether or not asking for recalls or getting some new blood running for office is the right thing. I'm stewing on that right now..
However, whether we keep DW, Arco, Sleepy, etc or vote them out, it doesn't change the fact they've generally done a pretty solid job for us. However, in our union as in our American political system, being in office is not a birthright. If we want to elect some new blood then I think it might not be a bad thing.
That leads to two questions...WHO? and WHAT WILL THIS DO TO UNITY?
The who is first. I cannot believe the only intelligent, articulate, experienced folks who want to use our collective bargaining system to increase our safety, Q of life, and financial security are already in office. Want some names? Steve Glenn and Tony Cutler are two folks I think could make a solid impact. (Do they want it? Heck...probably not...but either would be a solid block rep). Some of the current ALPA guys who are # 2 or # 3 on committees could step up to the plate. I've wrestled with thoughts of runnng for block rep in the past, but with a new stable to run my time is probably going to be cramped and I think Steve has a lot more airline experience and savvy that I do anyway.
As for unity--I have two thoughts. First...if the folks who signed that letter are SO driven in principal and believe in doing the right thing, then they'll be the first to support the union and its NEW leadership when it is time to step up. If they don't--for personal grudges--then the "you need to do this even though it s*cks because it is best for all of us" mantra they are giving us now will ring pretty hollow. While I don't think any of the current folks would be very happy with a recall, I think they are the quality of folks who'd continue to support the organization. I would hope so anyway...
Another concern would be "what will this say to the company?" I think we have a nasty little family feud going on right now. However, if poked from the outside we'll band together. I also think its better to FIX THIS NOW and if you have a beef with union leadership then replace them. That way, when we have other challenges, you'll trust your leadership when the chips are down.
And good or bad...right or wrong...this latest chapter has destroyed a lot of trust.
My MEC chair nomination? He's FO Wes Reed...who actually signed the letter. The dichotomy there is Wes has been more proactive and involved than most guys in our age group, and has a lot of expereince as block rep, SPC chair, and not treasurer. I think someone has gotten naked pictures of him in Mexico or is seriously twisting his arm, but I think he knows this is tearing apart the union and hates it. I'll let him speak for himself, but I get the feeling I am talking to someone with a gun to their head when he tries to explain why this is a good idea.
5-24-2007
Don't quit. Get involved. Vote.
Tony--you know I respect your opinion. But you are repeatedly defending those who by their actions have demonstrated they really don't have much loyalty down. You have a tremendous amount of loyalty to ALPA, and have seen why its so important. I told you this before--I think you'd be a great part of the NEXT group of ALPA leadership.
I personally think the "right" thing to do is for DW to step down. By diving on the grenade and demonstrating that he is willing to share the sacrifice he might send a message that would help re-unify the union.
I think both the block 7 and block 8 rep should also resign and allow some fresh blood into the mix. If they don't--when there is another election--you can bet there will be some new talent asking for the job. Nothing personal against either guy--but the way to unifying our union is putting some people in the office that guys can rally behind. Right now a lot of guys feel sold out, and I think a change would make it easier to move forward.
I've got a list of names of guys I think would be solid. I imagine most of us know a person or two who'd do a good job. Its time for a change.
That petition that was started by someone else is still open. That recall petition someone asked about is [email protected]. It is a petition to recall Dave Webb. It is bascially worthless, as there are too many layers of insulation between the membership and the MEC chairman. However, its a good chance to vent and if the starter of the petition shows up at an MEC meeting with a list of several hundred (or thousand) names it might at least convey the concern and allow a starting point for some changes.
Again--quitting the union is going to bite us in the @ss when we need each other down the road. However, it is obvious the junior guys are upset and very disenfranchised--I certainly am. What I think we need to do is not ditch our union, but reclaim the union as a union that works for all of us. That will mean some work and a bit more involvement than we've had in the past (yes....I'm guilty) but the choice of FDX ALPA, an independent union, or non member status still favors being a part of ALPA. Its a family fight right now--I'm mad--but I'm not quitting.
However--Dave Webb is just white noise now to me. I'm for any new block rep that promises to A) listen and communicate more with their block and B) rid us of him at the first chance.
5-31-2007
NF,
Tony is correct in the recall petition won't work for the MEC chairman. However, the organizer of the petition is gathering the names and wants to approach the MEC with a huge list and potentially ask for a voluntarily resignation. It will also be a list of folks to pursue recalling the current block reps or at least supporting future candidates who will promise to be more responsive to their own block's wishes.
Again--I am not anti-ALPA. I just think some of the MEC has gotten too isolated from the folks they represent. One way or another--there need to be some changes. Some new faces would go a long way towards restoring some trust.
FDX28 has pretty much spearheaded the effort. The plan is once a decent number of names are collected then the MEC will be approached. If a reasonable number isn't garnered, the list will be disposed of. Nobody is going to get hung out individually. There are plenty of us who have spoken openly about the changes we'd like to see.
As for signs--I'd have to defer to FDX28 and the other guys on the point. I think its a good idea. Anyone wanted to publicize the email should feel free to do so. Remember...Union starts with U. Let folks know you want some changes.
So..why I am a lazy slug and not doing it for you? I just got off the phone with Mary Sellers trying to get back on status after my back surgery earlier this month, and she informed me that I need a letter from the doc saying "No restrictions". While I think it might be reasonable for me to go back at week 4 without any issues, I am not sure if the doc will sign will sign a letter saying "cleared hot" with NO restrictions until 1 Jul. So...I know it sounds wierd....but I WANT to get to work but right now I have to go (*&%* pay only until July.
For those that don't know--when you get surgery you automatically go NOQ. That means you can't move an R day or make any changes to your calendar at all. I wanted to move some R days from the first of the month (where they'll have to be sicked) to the latter part (where I might be able to fly). So--you end up sort of stuck locked out of VIPS and unable to do squat. Time off is nice...but no F-15s since January, and no 727 flying since ealry May...I'm about ready to do some flying again. While I fly for a living, not for fun, I do think I'm pretty lucky to have a job I actually miss when I'm away from it for a while.
11-10-2007
I have pointed this out in the past. Members of Prater's Blue Ribbon panel indicate he was a bull in a china shop on this issue.
Only choice I have is to A) take it B) recall him or C) run and try to represent what the MAJORITY of pilots want. I won't do A, and B is futile. Those of you in blocks 2, 5, and 7 can vote however you want. You know, however, where I stand on how our MEC leader abused his power on this issue.
The argument for the language was simply that if we didn't represent "all" our folks equally, we would be subject to lawsuits and decertification efforts. Yeah...really high pk of that happening, IMHO. We cannot even vote in an LOA that will fill more than 10 FO slots in HKG...but we are worried about lawsuits from 100 over 60 guys? Focus is lost...
I trust two people right now on our MEC. He ain't one of them.
[Footnote: Capt Stratton was on Prater's Blue Ribbon Panel on Age 60. Did he describe Prater as a bull in a china shop, or did you hear that from other members?]
12-16-2007
I am listening. I agree with many things said here...as does Vic Liberti. Not everyone on the MEC likes the ways things are going right now, and some change is imminent.
Some tried to recall Dave Webb. I even know one of the guys who signed the petition REAL well. I know the feeling of alienation and loss of trust many of you feel right now.
Can I ask that you hang tough...another 6 months? (Not like you have a choice, but I digress...) There are a few who feel like you do, and are committed to listening more, communicating more frequently, and being available OUT of the office sometimes. New guys swear in during March. You probably won't see much difference for several more months--but by next summer I hope some of you are saying "hey...things are different".
Don't give up. Several folks got PO'd and decided to get involved. If you'll keep that energy up we'll be calling on your for more support shortly.
I know that you wanted Webb to go, but you didn't start the petitition, you knew the petition wouldn't serve to effect a recall, and you apparently didn't even sign the petition -- you "knew one of the guys who signed the petition REAL well." That hardly qualifies as INITIATING a recall.Dudes...if we want to send a signal we aren't satisfied, there are a ton of guys besides DW who can lead our MEC. He ain't a God. He's got experience, but if that expereince is working against the desires of 4000 guys then we need to find another guy.
I'm not anti-ALPA. I'm certainly not anti union. However--I am against anyone who won't listen to their constitutents. Give me info--don't tell me "what's best for me..."
Who wants to start the recall? I honestly think it can be forced if everyone is as irritated as I think they are.
Age 60--well...if we gotta. Retroactivety? Up yours. I'll be we can find at least ONE sharp, qualified, team player who would take that position to our MEC.
FYI...I join the walking wounded next week for back surgery, the sequel. I cannot go to MEM to vote but I can certainly email with the best of them...
I'm still on the fence on whether or not asking for recalls or getting some new blood running for office is the right thing. I'm stewing on that right now..
However, whether we keep DW, Arco, Sleepy, etc or vote them out, it doesn't change the fact they've generally done a pretty solid job for us. However, in our union as in our American political system, being in office is not a birthright. If we want to elect some new blood then I think it might not be a bad thing.
That leads to two questions...WHO? and WHAT WILL THIS DO TO UNITY?
The who is first. I cannot believe the only intelligent, articulate, experienced folks who want to use our collective bargaining system to increase our safety, Q of life, and financial security are already in office. Want some names? Steve Glenn and Tony Cutler are two folks I think could make a solid impact. (Do they want it? Heck...probably not...but either would be a solid block rep). Some of the current ALPA guys who are # 2 or # 3 on committees could step up to the plate. I've wrestled with thoughts of runnng for block rep in the past, but with a new stable to run my time is probably going to be cramped and I think Steve has a lot more airline experience and savvy that I do anyway.
As for unity--I have two thoughts. First...if the folks who signed that letter are SO driven in principal and believe in doing the right thing, then they'll be the first to support the union and its NEW leadership when it is time to step up. If they don't--for personal grudges--then the "you need to do this even though it s*cks because it is best for all of us" mantra they are giving us now will ring pretty hollow. While I don't think any of the current folks would be very happy with a recall, I think they are the quality of folks who'd continue to support the organization. I would hope so anyway...
Another concern would be "what will this say to the company?" I think we have a nasty little family feud going on right now. However, if poked from the outside we'll band together. I also think its better to FIX THIS NOW and if you have a beef with union leadership then replace them. That way, when we have other challenges, you'll trust your leadership when the chips are down.
And good or bad...right or wrong...this latest chapter has destroyed a lot of trust.
My MEC chair nomination? He's FO Wes Reed...who actually signed the letter. The dichotomy there is Wes has been more proactive and involved than most guys in our age group, and has a lot of expereince as block rep, SPC chair, and not treasurer. I think someone has gotten naked pictures of him in Mexico or is seriously twisting his arm, but I think he knows this is tearing apart the union and hates it. I'll let him speak for himself, but I get the feeling I am talking to someone with a gun to their head when he tries to explain why this is a good idea.
Don't quit. Get involved. Vote.
Tony--you know I respect your opinion. But you are repeatedly defending those who by their actions have demonstrated they really don't have much loyalty down. You have a tremendous amount of loyalty to ALPA, and have seen why its so important. I told you this before--I think you'd be a great part of the NEXT group of ALPA leadership.
I personally think the "right" thing to do is for DW to step down. By diving on the grenade and demonstrating that he is willing to share the sacrifice he might send a message that would help re-unify the union.
I think both the block 7 and block 8 rep should also resign and allow some fresh blood into the mix. If they don't--when there is another election--you can bet there will be some new talent asking for the job. Nothing personal against either guy--but the way to unifying our union is putting some people in the office that guys can rally behind. Right now a lot of guys feel sold out, and I think a change would make it easier to move forward.
I've got a list of names of guys I think would be solid. I imagine most of us know a person or two who'd do a good job. Its time for a change.
That petition that was started by someone else is still open. That recall petition someone asked about is [email protected]. It is a petition to recall Dave Webb. It is bascially worthless, as there are too many layers of insulation between the membership and the MEC chairman. However, its a good chance to vent and if the starter of the petition shows up at an MEC meeting with a list of several hundred (or thousand) names it might at least convey the concern and allow a starting point for some changes.
Again--quitting the union is going to bite us in the @ss when we need each other down the road. However, it is obvious the junior guys are upset and very disenfranchised--I certainly am. What I think we need to do is not ditch our union, but reclaim the union as a union that works for all of us. That will mean some work and a bit more involvement than we've had in the past (yes....I'm guilty) but the choice of FDX ALPA, an independent union, or non member status still favors being a part of ALPA. Its a family fight right now--I'm mad--but I'm not quitting.
However--Dave Webb is just white noise now to me. I'm for any new block rep that promises to A) listen and communicate more with their block and B) rid us of him at the first chance.
NF,
Tony is correct in the recall petition won't work for the MEC chairman. However, the organizer of the petition is gathering the names and wants to approach the MEC with a huge list and potentially ask for a voluntarily resignation. It will also be a list of folks to pursue recalling the current block reps or at least supporting future candidates who will promise to be more responsive to their own block's wishes.
Again--I am not anti-ALPA. I just think some of the MEC has gotten too isolated from the folks they represent. One way or another--there need to be some changes. Some new faces would go a long way towards restoring some trust.
FDX28 has pretty much spearheaded the effort. The plan is once a decent number of names are collected then the MEC will be approached. If a reasonable number isn't garnered, the list will be disposed of. Nobody is going to get hung out individually. There are plenty of us who have spoken openly about the changes we'd like to see.
As for signs--I'd have to defer to FDX28 and the other guys on the point. I think its a good idea. Anyone wanted to publicize the email should feel free to do so. Remember...Union starts with U. Let folks know you want some changes.
So..why I am a lazy slug and not doing it for you? I just got off the phone with Mary Sellers trying to get back on status after my back surgery earlier this month, and she informed me that I need a letter from the doc saying "No restrictions". While I think it might be reasonable for me to go back at week 4 without any issues, I am not sure if the doc will sign will sign a letter saying "cleared hot" with NO restrictions until 1 Jul. So...I know it sounds wierd....but I WANT to get to work but right now I have to go (*&%* pay only until July.
For those that don't know--when you get surgery you automatically go NOQ. That means you can't move an R day or make any changes to your calendar at all. I wanted to move some R days from the first of the month (where they'll have to be sicked) to the latter part (where I might be able to fly). So--you end up sort of stuck locked out of VIPS and unable to do squat. Time off is nice...but no F-15s since January, and no 727 flying since ealry May...I'm about ready to do some flying again. While I fly for a living, not for fun, I do think I'm pretty lucky to have a job I actually miss when I'm away from it for a while.
I have pointed this out in the past. Members of Prater's Blue Ribbon panel indicate he was a bull in a china shop on this issue.
Only choice I have is to A) take it B) recall him or C) run and try to represent what the MAJORITY of pilots want. I won't do A, and B is futile. Those of you in blocks 2, 5, and 7 can vote however you want. You know, however, where I stand on how our MEC leader abused his power on this issue.
The argument for the language was simply that if we didn't represent "all" our folks equally, we would be subject to lawsuits and decertification efforts. Yeah...really high pk of that happening, IMHO. We cannot even vote in an LOA that will fill more than 10 FO slots in HKG...but we are worried about lawsuits from 100 over 60 guys? Focus is lost...
I trust two people right now on our MEC. He ain't one of them.
12-16-2007
I am listening. I agree with many things said here...as does Vic Liberti. Not everyone on the MEC likes the ways things are going right now, and some change is imminent.
Some tried to recall Dave Webb. I even know one of the guys who signed the petition REAL well. I know the feeling of alienation and loss of trust many of you feel right now.
Can I ask that you hang tough...another 6 months? (Not like you have a choice, but I digress...) There are a few who feel like you do, and are committed to listening more, communicating more frequently, and being available OUT of the office sometimes. New guys swear in during March. You probably won't see much difference for several more months--but by next summer I hope some of you are saying "hey...things are different".
Don't give up. Several folks got PO'd and decided to get involved. If you'll keep that energy up we'll be calling on your for more support shortly.
When the Negotiating Committee Chairman was faced with the facts before him and decided to resign, it really wasn't up to the MEC or the MEC Chairman to prohibit him from resigning, now was it?
But, you were in the perfect position to INITIATE a recall by introducing a motion to recall. The MEC was in session when we learned of the resignation, and any MEC Member could have made the motion.
You did not.
Again, you did not INITIATE a recall.
I just wanted to set the facts straight.
And that's why somebody's block rep told him, "Don't worry -- we're on it. Just be patient" instead of "Stop whining."
.
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