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"My understanding regarding OTP is the advantage is they get to cherry-pick trips before the VTOs. Once the new bid month is released into open time, it's every man for himself and OTP no longer gives you any advantage. Am I right or am I rillo? So all these charters becoming available after open-time release has no relevance to OTP."
I obviously understand very little, but....I think you're right, but the priority you have to cherry pick trips before the VTO's is just in the monthly make-up bid, and is not considered OTP. OTP is when you have a trip cancelled and instead of going into sub status, you decide to go into OTP. Anyone? |
" In fact they could use all sorts of odd denial codes to clean out those in front of me. Things like, "trip not legal", "no one in seven", "no one in ten" etc. Then the scheduler at the desk would always be approving the top person in the queue when he looked at the list. It might look odd, but really hard to prove. Well, at least it would take a couple hours and someone who cared."
I think they could get away with that in the old days when it wasn't computer tracked. I remember Amos would just to deny my swaps all the time, for illegalities when I had no trip in sight on either week, or one in seven, same situation. When I'd call, he'd say, "Oh, just reinput it." Surprise, earlier time stamped. Once he denied a mutual swap when I was swapping a one week trip for a one day trip to the other guy, saying, "But one person is going to get paid so much more." Well so freaking what, what business was it of his? Just weird stuff. But I think everything is numbered and time stamped, and it would be pretty hard to get away with that. Plus, someone could demand to talk to the manager and have them track it. That would be pretty risky for a scheduler. |
Originally Posted by kwri10s
(Post 1580317)
If I knew a scheduler and wanted to be sly and devious. I would never have my buddy scheduler "approve" my trip pickups. In fact I would prefer he was not the primary scheduler for my plane. Then we could play games.
A little advance notice the trip is going to drop. Then all I would have to do is input my trip pick up request, then tell my bud to clean out the queue of all the requests that might have beaten me to the punch. In fact they could use all sorts of odd denial codes to clean out those in front of me. Things like, "trip not legal", "no one in seven", "no one in ten" etc. Then the scheduler at the desk would always be approving the top person in the queue when he looked at the list. It might look odd, but really hard to prove. Well, at least it would take a couple hours and someone who cared. For good measure I could sign up to be a special projects guy so the chief pilot would think I was above reproach. Let a couple buds in the know and hello, We're in business. A little bit of charter knowledge from the green screen, like where the trips are in the build would let me project the trip number and start date, so when they did drop I'd be ready and the number of potential quicker fingered guys would be very small. Block my calendar so the casual tracker cannot see what I'm doing. You can't block the green screen calendar, but that takes more work. A little gratitude to my scheduler buddy. Maybe some free plane tickets with my Million Mile Delta status. If I could throw in some way to make the company think twice about disciplining us, that would be the cherry on top. See this cargo business is not that hard. At least I might try to do it that way. |
Are the repeat abusers on the trips mentioned so far the Cap, FO, or both?
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Originally Posted by CompetentFool
(Post 1580314)
My understanding regarding OTP is the advantage is they get to cherry-pick trips before the VTOs. Once the new bid month is released into open time, it's every man for himself and OTP no longer gives you any advantage. Am I right or am I rillo? So all these charters becoming available after open-time release has no relevance to OTP. They're getting these trips thru other means (like knowing the scheduler and getting inside info before the rest of you MD-11 types). Seems like this situation is causing a rift in the ranks and Fedex doesn't seem to care to fix it. Makes me wonder why?
|
Originally Posted by Bill Kilgore
(Post 1580349)
Are the repeat abusers on the trips mentioned so far the Cap, FO, or both?
fbh |
Come on guys - OTP stands for Open Time Priority. Meaning first dibs for Open Time. Nothing to do with the View/Add window.
It is the one thing that the company throws down every time we ask for a real-time trip trading system. They say OTP makes it impossible. If a trip is in open time and 20 guys have put in bids to make it up, they go by time stamp. Except for the one guy who threw down OTP, who goes to the front of the list. Even with a later time stamp the OTP guy gets the trip. The reasoning is that you only get the OTP "good deal" because something bad happened to you previously - trip CNX, SUB that you denied, etc. OTP is a good faith effort to make sure that guys that got hosed don't lose pay. Unfortunately the OTP churning loophole is being abused now. And I suspect that there is more than than that going on. Also, don't mock kwri10s checklist. He has it nailed, especially the penultimate line. |
Keep posting these trips. I know one of the abusers and I plan on having a little talk with him. Since he blocks his calender, he probably thought he was flying under the radar. I'm going to tell him that I heard he was "Buddy ********ing" his union brothers and that his trips are all over PFC. Peer pressure is the only way these guys will stop and I would've never known had those trips not been posted.
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Why not post the actual OTP loophole so we can all use it? In its current state, this is nothing more than screwing your bros.
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Originally Posted by purpledog
(Post 1580392)
Keep posting these trips. I know one of the abusers and I plan on having a little talk with him. Since he blocks his calender, he probably thought he was flying under the radar. I'm going to tell him that I heard he was "Buddy ********ing" his union brothers and that his trips are all over PFC. Peer pressure is the only way these guys will stop and I would've never known had those trips not been posted.
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That's because he was bumped by MGT and then had the audacity to pick up another charter on top of the one he was bumped from. 200% pay.
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I think we all are beginning to see the importance of our union being required to uphold the Code of Ethics. This situation is absurd and is creating a divide. Furthermore, the union's lack of interest to police their own is disgusting and undermines our efforts in contract negotiations and grievances. If the union lets it go why not the company. Solution: Letter from ALPA to these individuals explaining their breach of the code. Explain that they either defend their position or there will be a vote amongst the union for decertifying their membership. We have a closed shop, so these fools will still have to pay but anything other than that is really up to the union.
This problem needs to be rectified before I sign a new contract. If I get one of these charters it will improve my pay and QOL more than anything that is being negotiated. |
Originally Posted by Malkovich
(Post 1579979)
Chrtrs 2234/21, 2236/21 also.
Please post the Trips/dates of alleged fraud doers. That is the angle the Union needs to go with......FRAUD. And bribery of the co-conspirators in Scheds. |
Originally Posted by C17MooseDriver
(Post 1580616)
The FO on the 2234/21 is infamous, but 2236/21 seems like just a good OT grab. Let's make sure we separate the cheaters from those who play fair instead of accusing everyone who gets a good trip now and then into the same pot.
2234 FO on the other hand is infamous & has been doing this for months. The fact that he blocks his calendar should tell you everything you need to know |
Originally Posted by Gunpig
(Post 1580644)
2236 was a lucky grab, that FO is definitely NOT abusing the system
2234 FO on the other hand is infamous & has been doing this for months. The fact that he blocks his calendar should tell you everything you need to know |
Originally Posted by mrzog2138
(Post 1580652)
Replace "for months" with "for years". It has been at least 2 years that I know.
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Seems like there was a way to look at a blockers cal on the green screen. Anyone remember how?
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We've somewhat solved this problem on the 757. Almost zero charters and trips in open time that people are more likely to run away screaming from than picking them up with OTP. Ahhh, the simple life.
With that said, what I'm reading here is absolute BS even if only 50% true. It reveals a significant breach of integrity which should concern the company. People willing to break the rules for personal gain generally don't limit their rule breaking to one specific act. And a system that can't police itself eventually ends up having someone else take over that job when it inevitably falls apart. None of us want that. |
What's the correlation between picking up charters and blocking calendars? What's the advantage of blocking your calendar if you pick up a charter? We never seem to have charters in the Bus unless someone is getting them before they hit open time (I've never seen one in the Bus).
|
Originally Posted by The Walrus
(Post 1580664)
Seems like there was a way to look at a blockers cal on the green screen. Anyone remember how?
Company message posted on Mainframe VIPS, Jan 2007: Pilot access to VIPS is available only via pilot.fedex.com. VIPS access via the 3270 "green screen" has been eliminated due to contract implementation requirements. Please use a web browser and access VIPS using pilot.fedex.com. Thank You. So I don't think there is anyway to access current calendars via the mainframe, unless there is a secret back door-- and you think they are going to tell you about that?? ;) |
I like the idea of posting names here.....
When we finally get mad enough about this to post names...I'd like to see the scheduler's names that are perpetrating the preferential treatment.
There must be schedulers on every shift to cover 24/7 open time postings. Are we talking real-time schedulers working this stuff or futures schedulers? Are their special schedulers that work the charters separate from the regular trips? I also see pilots grabbing the XTRA pairings as well as CHTRs - faster than a human can possibly react on a computer. I doubt every scheduler is on the take - any chance the legit schedulers will come clean on how pilots are screwing over the bros? |
The reason they block there calendars are they have been confronted about it by other pilots. If you look at their schedules ( before they blocked them) every trip was 2xxx for the ENTIRE YEAR, indicating they were a charter or extra trip. The vast majority of these trips begin or end (most begin AND end) with some huge deadhead. Numerous people have gone to management about this with the same response "we are aware of it." The company cannot discipline someone for flying trips. They can't discipline them for talking to schedulers. The only people that are going to be disciplined are the individuals who confront them at Ops, and they claim harassment. That is the reality. So where does that leave us, the same conundrum that has plagued pilots since the beginning. Someone will always find a way to cheat the system and screw their buddies. My only question is can Professional Standards get involved? I know one needed a 3 in 30 a few months back. How did I know? The trip (an out-and-back) was in open time for CAP with a note from scheduling saying F/O needed both legs for currency.
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FDX Charters
Ok, I'll bite.
Do you think it's possible that some people getting better open time trips have put more genuine, HONEST, hard work into improving their calendars than some of the conspiracy theorist on this message board? Unfortunately because of their success they are persecuted by the jealous vocal minority. This ignorant perception of those that have become experienced, efficient, fast, knowledgable at trip trading has forced some to block their calendars in hopes of not being harassed. I'm sorry this is harsh, but come on guys. I for one wouldn't risk this wonderful career by doing anything illegal, shady, or unacceptable to my union brothers. I can only speak for myself, but if I've been tried and convicted, as I have, based on flatly false accusations then I wonder if the other "offenders" are maybe honest as well. J.S. Owner of 2234/21 |
Yes, I agree you are probably more vigilant than some when it comes to open time trips. But there are inconsistencies that have shown. Trips magically coming unfrozen when an individual has landed 45 minutes ago and coincidentally he gets the trip, (for disclosure not you but a different, honest, hard-worker). When you have a couple of hundred people wanting the same trips and only a handful getting them EVERYTIME, it brings up flags. But, like you said if you are doing nothing wrong. Good on you. But do you really blame people for questioning it? I don't know you and this really does not effect me, but at the same time it SEEMS too good to be true.
|
Lakeside, I have personally never heard your name as a guy getting charters consistently . But you may want to ask your RFO on that trip you have about his amazing luck at getting charters every month, for years. I'm sure hard work and smarts come into play, but not every month can you beat out 600 other guys looking for
that good deal trip. I gave up when one guy picked up a charter while airborne. This was pointed out to MgT and nothing was done. Game over. |
Originally Posted by Patches
(Post 1580755)
When we finally get mad enough about this to post names...I'd like to see the scheduler's names that are perpetrating the preferential treatment.
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Originally Posted by Lakeside
(Post 1580808)
Ok, I'll bite.
Do you think it's possible that some people getting better open time trips have put more genuine, HONEST, hard work into improving their calendars than some of the conspiracy theorist on this message board? J.S. Owner of 2234/21 |
1) Lakeside unblock your calendar. Enough said.
2) This issue is REAL and not a conspiracy. 3) Care to elaborate how you have become a trip trading god and 4400 pilots haven't figured it out? Do you recycle OTP? if so do you feel this is ethical not just legal? |
Originally Posted by Lakeside
(Post 1580808)
Ok, I'll bite.
Do you think it's possible that some people getting better open time trips have put more genuine, HONEST, hard work into improving their calendars than some of the conspiracy theorist on this message board? Unfortunately because of their success they are persecuted by the jealous vocal minority. This ignorant perception of those that have become experienced, efficient, fast, knowledgable at trip trading has forced some to block their calendars in hopes of not being harassed. I'm sorry this is harsh, but come on guys. I for one wouldn't risk this wonderful career by doing anything illegal, shady, or unacceptable to my union brothers. I can only speak for myself, but if I've been tried and convicted, as I have, based on flatly false accusations then I wonder if the other "offenders" are maybe honest as well. J.S. Owner of 2234/21 You are limited at 300 VIPs checks a day. So how can you constantly be the first? You obviously check VIPs about at least once each minute? That lasts for about five hours... So you are consistently faster than all of the other MD11 FOs? |
Originally Posted by golfandfly
(Post 1580885)
I'd say you are one of the premier charter flyers that people are talking about. How about opening up the schedule and let us take a look?
You are limited at 300 VIPs checks a day. So how can you constantly be the first? You obviously check VIPs about at least once each minute? That lasts for about five hours... So you are consistently faster than all of the other MD11 FOs? I've lost count how many charters I've put in for only to out done by these same people. Good on you if you're doing this legit. However, the consistency of the names associated with these trips makes it almost impossible to believe that it's done with an "honest and efficient" technique. If I were that good, I would buy the next powerball and call the flying gig good. |
Originally Posted by DoodyOfficer
(Post 1580483)
I think we all are beginning to see the importance of our union being required to uphold the Code of Ethics. This situation is absurd and is creating a divide. Furthermore, the union's lack of interest to police their own is disgusting and undermines our efforts in contract negotiations and grievances. If the union lets it go why not the company. Solution: Letter from ALPA to these individuals explaining their breach of the code. Explain that they either defend their position or there will be a vote amongst the union for decertifying their membership. We have a closed shop, so these fools will still have to pay but anything other than that is really up to the union.
This problem needs to be rectified before I sign a new contract. If I get one of these charters it will improve my pay and QOL more than anything that is being negotiated. My .02 Z |
FDX Charters
Lakeside, you might have a chance at credibility with an unblocked calendar. Until then...
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Originally Posted by HazCan
(Post 1580908)
Lakeside, you might have a chance at credibility with an unblocked calendar. Until then...
|
FDX Charters
Just a couple of facts:
I haven't gotten a charter flight in over a year until this month. January 2013 was my last charter trip. I just recently blocked my calendar, after much thought, consideration, and prayer because there are crew members that have my last twelve months of work printed out and are carrying it with them to show everyone they fly with. This, I feel, is harassment. Yes, I have been successful with trip trading, no I'm not cheating. Period. No I do not recycle OTP. I don't know other people's techniques or processes. I thought I would respond honestly to defend myself on this board, I hope it helps and isn't taken to fan the fire. Please take me if your list of wrong doers. That's all I'm going to say. Thanks |
Originally Posted by Lakeside
(Post 1580915)
Just a couple of facts:
I haven't gotten a charter flight in over a year until this month. January 2013 was my last charter trip. I just recently blocked my calendar, after much thought, consideration, and prayer because there are crew members that have my last twelve months of work printed out and are carrying it with them to show everyone they fly with. This, I feel, is harassment. Yes, I have been successful with trip trading, no I'm not cheating. Period. No I do not recycle OTP. I don't know other people's techniques or processes. I thought I would respond honestly to defend myself on this board, I hope it helps and isn't taken to fan the fire. Please take me if your list of wrong doers. That's all I'm going to say. Thanks |
Originally Posted by Lakeside
(Post 1580915)
Just a couple of facts:
I haven't gotten a charter flight in over a year until this month. January 2013 was my last charter trip. I just recently blocked my calendar, after much thought, consideration, and prayer because there are crew members that have my last twelve months of work printed out and are carrying it with them to show everyone they fly with. This, I feel, is harassment. Yes, I have been successful with trip trading, no I'm not cheating. Period. No I do not recycle OTP. I don't know other people's techniques or processes. I thought I would respond honestly to defend myself on this board, I hope it helps and isn't taken to fan the fire. Please take me if your list of wrong doers. That's all I'm going to say. Thanks Honestly. |
I'm thinkin....
Lakeside works alot....nothing wrong with being on Reserve and never getting called and doing my 2 weeks of FedEx on the other weeks.... but, boy, if I did that 12 months out of the year I might block my calendar too. But then again, can't really see me wanting to work that much |
FDX Charters
Charter and Extra are two separate trip types. Both can be real good. Charters are usually the best deals in my opinion and have loadmasters(reps as you call them).
My friend, I haven't been able to get a Charter flight in over a year. But I have been successful in getting a good share of Extra flying. |
Originally Posted by HazCan
(Post 1580908)
Lakeside, you might have a chance at credibility with an unblocked calendar. Until then...
|
Originally Posted by kronan
(Post 1580946)
I'm thinkin....
Lakeside works alot....nothing wrong with being on Reserve and never getting called and doing my 2 weeks of FedEx on the other weeks.... but, boy, if I did that 12 months out of the year I might block my calendar too. But then again, can't really see me wanting to work that much |
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