Hkg loa letter
10-10-2013, 10:49 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,092
Well, sorry to spoil the black helicopter thread.
This of course is all very unfortunate, specially for our fellow brothers who now have to find a way back to employment, after being fired. But to keep the paranoia in check it is worth mentioning that ANY company, not only FDX, will fire an employee if they believe, and then prove through their means, that the employee was stealing, lying, cheating, etc...
The way I read the cases, I feel there were enough grey areas being explored by the pilots to warrant some caution (ie, take the settlement). I'm not saying whether they were guilty or not, it's just that I cannot understand how these guys decided to not take the amnesty, nor the settlement. I know ALPA's advice to all of them towards the end was to take the settlement. They chose to fight a company with a very solid legal department and with lots of money to support said department; it may have been the noble route, but man... I would have taken the settlement if I were in any of the cases that I read about. Just my opinion.
FWIW, there is no mass exodus of pilots bidding back to MEM from EUR in the wake of all of this. Not sure about HKG, but most guys in EUR are enjoying the adventure there. Most families are traveling, almost non-stop, and doing so without any worries about residency, etc... Most guys who are bidding back are doing so because of the chance to return to WB pay, because their spouse is not happy in Germany, and/or because the Housing Allowance and Tuition allowances are not sufficient for guys with 2 or more school-aged children.
Flame away.
This of course is all very unfortunate, specially for our fellow brothers who now have to find a way back to employment, after being fired. But to keep the paranoia in check it is worth mentioning that ANY company, not only FDX, will fire an employee if they believe, and then prove through their means, that the employee was stealing, lying, cheating, etc...
The way I read the cases, I feel there were enough grey areas being explored by the pilots to warrant some caution (ie, take the settlement). I'm not saying whether they were guilty or not, it's just that I cannot understand how these guys decided to not take the amnesty, nor the settlement. I know ALPA's advice to all of them towards the end was to take the settlement. They chose to fight a company with a very solid legal department and with lots of money to support said department; it may have been the noble route, but man... I would have taken the settlement if I were in any of the cases that I read about. Just my opinion.
FWIW, there is no mass exodus of pilots bidding back to MEM from EUR in the wake of all of this. Not sure about HKG, but most guys in EUR are enjoying the adventure there. Most families are traveling, almost non-stop, and doing so without any worries about residency, etc... Most guys who are bidding back are doing so because of the chance to return to WB pay, because their spouse is not happy in Germany, and/or because the Housing Allowance and Tuition allowances are not sufficient for guys with 2 or more school-aged children.
Flame away.
10-10-2013, 04:51 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 260
I believe the main sticking point on why the accused pilots wouldn't take the amnesty was the required " I defrauded the company " statement - amongst a myriad of other reasons. Too public a forum and too long too list, as this board is monitored and big brother and black helicopters do exist, at least at this company.
We in HK here that there us an exodus out of CGN as the lines are horrible and the school issues are just as expensive, if not more.
They at least have better food quality, less pollution, better housing choices, unfortunately on narrow body pay...so they got that going for them, which is nice...
The beatings will continue until morale improves!
We in HK here that there us an exodus out of CGN as the lines are horrible and the school issues are just as expensive, if not more.
They at least have better food quality, less pollution, better housing choices, unfortunately on narrow body pay...so they got that going for them, which is nice...
The beatings will continue until morale improves!
10-10-2013, 05:53 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 260
Pardon autocorrect errors!
I believe the main sticking point on why the accused pilots wouldn't take the amnesty was the required " I defrauded the company " statement - amongst a myriad of other reasons. Too public a forum and too long too list, as this board is monitored and big brother and black helicopters do exist, at least at this company.
We in HK here that there us an exodus out of CGN as the lines are horrible and the school issues are just as expensive, if not more.
They at least have better food quality, less pollution, better housing choices, unfortunately on narrow body pay...so they got that going for them, which is nice...
The beatings will continue until morale improves!
We in HK here that there us an exodus out of CGN as the lines are horrible and the school issues are just as expensive, if not more.
They at least have better food quality, less pollution, better housing choices, unfortunately on narrow body pay...so they got that going for them, which is nice...
The beatings will continue until morale improves!
Cheers!
10-10-2013, 08:56 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,124
I suspect the reason no one is fleeing HKG is because where would they flee to? Remember the guys involved here weren't just HKG management - it went way up the chain. Expect the same exact treatment regardless of where you are based. It's a great job but don't doubt for a second that your boss, wherever he is located, wouldn't do a number of deceitful things to keep his job and you lose yours. I'm working my way through all the arbitrations - we should all read them and heed them.
"I don't recall" - you have to love that response
"I don't recall" - you have to love that response
10-10-2013, 11:15 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: headbanging
Posts: 954
At least the checks clear every two weeks, because I am actually ashamed of this company and how they treat people. Wow, just think-if they had utilized 50% of the resources in these investigations to help/resolve the actual issues! Unbelievable. I don't trust any of these guys, I don't care. Ladder climbing weasels.
10-11-2013, 01:52 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 331
Thanks......
10-11-2013, 03:32 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: I never did mind the little things.......
Posts: 261
10-11-2013, 09:24 AM
#18
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
Well, sorry to spoil the black helicopter thread.
This of course is all very unfortunate, specially for our fellow brothers who now have to find a way back to employment, after being fired. But to keep the paranoia in check it is worth mentioning that ANY company, not only FDX, will fire an employee if they believe, and then prove through their means, that the employee was stealing, lying, cheating, etc...
The way I read the cases, I feel there were enough grey areas being explored by the pilots to warrant some caution (ie, take the settlement). I'm not saying whether they were guilty or not, it's just that I cannot understand how these guys decided to not take the amnesty, nor the settlement. I know ALPA's advice to all of them towards the end was to take the settlement. They chose to fight a company with a very solid legal department and with lots of money to support said department; it may have been the noble route, but man... I would have taken the settlement if I were in any of the cases that I read about. Just my opinion.
FWIW, there is no mass exodus of pilots bidding back to MEM from EUR in the wake of all of this. Not sure about HKG, but most guys in EUR are enjoying the adventure there. Most families are traveling, almost non-stop, and doing so without any worries about residency, etc... Most guys who are bidding back are doing so because of the chance to return to WB pay, because their spouse is not happy in Germany, and/or because the Housing Allowance and Tuition allowances are not sufficient for guys with 2 or more school-aged children.
Flame away.
This of course is all very unfortunate, specially for our fellow brothers who now have to find a way back to employment, after being fired. But to keep the paranoia in check it is worth mentioning that ANY company, not only FDX, will fire an employee if they believe, and then prove through their means, that the employee was stealing, lying, cheating, etc...
The way I read the cases, I feel there were enough grey areas being explored by the pilots to warrant some caution (ie, take the settlement). I'm not saying whether they were guilty or not, it's just that I cannot understand how these guys decided to not take the amnesty, nor the settlement. I know ALPA's advice to all of them towards the end was to take the settlement. They chose to fight a company with a very solid legal department and with lots of money to support said department; it may have been the noble route, but man... I would have taken the settlement if I were in any of the cases that I read about. Just my opinion.
FWIW, there is no mass exodus of pilots bidding back to MEM from EUR in the wake of all of this. Not sure about HKG, but most guys in EUR are enjoying the adventure there. Most families are traveling, almost non-stop, and doing so without any worries about residency, etc... Most guys who are bidding back are doing so because of the chance to return to WB pay, because their spouse is not happy in Germany, and/or because the Housing Allowance and Tuition allowances are not sufficient for guys with 2 or more school-aged children.
Flame away.
Hmm....black helicopters. Sounds like a cliche comment a prole would make. I keep hearing that phrase used a lot. Of course nobody is out to get you!
Keep the paranoia in check! See above.
Maybe they didnt take the amnesty deal because, due to the many grey areas, they honestly didnt feel that the were bilking the Company. And because of that they had the courage to stand up for what they believed instead of admitting guilt or abiding by the amnesty rules offered. And yes, they unfortunately lost their jobs because of it.
So because there is no mass exodus, the implication is that the rulings are justified?
Flame....not trying to. Just making some counter points.
10-11-2013, 05:36 PM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Retired
Posts: 42
The Path Forward
I suspect the company is feeling a sense of empowerment after winning the arbitrations and they are ready to make a financial grab using that empowerment.
In the past they only went after married pilots. As long as you were single you were deemed "safe". The rules have just changed. Now you get to have a chat with a manager and let them decide whether you "qualify" for the housing allowance. Of course you don't have to give up the allowance because a manager doesn't think you qualify. You will be in that "gray area" and good luck with that. So if they only get 10 pilots from each base to give up their housing allowance they just saved a million bucks annually.
This whole situation reminds me of what happened here in the mid 90's. We had non contract and got into self help. The company started imposing new rules upon us because they could. Many of those rules are still here today including our Substitution Policy.
The part I have never understood is how our Pilot/Managers do this to their own. They have destroyed fellow pilots careers and are now reaching into the wallets of the ones still here. Shame on you all.
I suspect the company is feeling a sense of empowerment after winning the arbitrations and they are ready to make a financial grab using that empowerment.
In the past they only went after married pilots. As long as you were single you were deemed "safe". The rules have just changed. Now you get to have a chat with a manager and let them decide whether you "qualify" for the housing allowance. Of course you don't have to give up the allowance because a manager doesn't think you qualify. You will be in that "gray area" and good luck with that. So if they only get 10 pilots from each base to give up their housing allowance they just saved a million bucks annually.
This whole situation reminds me of what happened here in the mid 90's. We had non contract and got into self help. The company started imposing new rules upon us because they could. Many of those rules are still here today including our Substitution Policy.
The part I have never understood is how our Pilot/Managers do this to their own. They have destroyed fellow pilots careers and are now reaching into the wallets of the ones still here. Shame on you all.
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