FDX Jumpseats

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06-17-2013, 08:11 AM

#131

AerisArmis

Slainge Var'

Joined APC: Oct 2006

Position: Zeppelin Tail Gunner

Posts: 1,530

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerOnWall

As PIC, you are responsible for safe operation of flight.

Exactly, safely getting the people/cargo to the destination. He is not responsible for stuffing the cockpit with anyone who wants a lift. The Captain can, as a courtesy and at his discretion, allow certain others admission to the flight deck even though they are not responsible nor helpful in the safe operation of the flight. If, for any reason, he/she chooses not to extend that courtesy, the issue is closed. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
BTW Glen, I see you have been an Airman since 1976, are a mechanic and are thinking about "moving up" to the flight deck. Assuming all these things you've said are true, you got a bit of a late start don't you think?

06-17-2013, 08:31 AM

#132

AerisArmis

Slainge Var'

Joined APC: Oct 2006

Position: Zeppelin Tail Gunner

Posts: 1,530

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerOnWall

You think having a mechanic riding jumpseat could be detrimental to the safe operation of the aircraft? .

Many years ago, I remember a cockpit jumpseating mechanic (on duty) fooling around with VHF-3 (changing freqs as he was trying to listen in on the radio) after our MD-11 took the runway at SIN enroute to PEN. Next thing we knew, a SIA 747 was going around over our head and we were getting yelled at on guard to clear the runway. Upon our return from PEN, the Capt got to go up in the SIN tower for an a$$ chewing from the tower supervisor. So yes, to answer your question, having a mechanic riding jumpseat could be detrimental to the safe operation of the aircraft. I would expect this to be an isolated incident, much like your example of when you were a hero and prevented disaster. However, whether the mech could be a detriment or could be helpful is irrelevant when it comes to PIC authority and personal jumpseating in the cockpit.

06-17-2013, 08:37 AM

#133

TonyC

Organizational Learning 

Joined APC: Nov 2005

Position: Directly behind the combiner

Posts: 4,948

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerOnWall

You guys have about the worst "safety" record of any airline, ...

I'll take this sudden, sharp change of subject as acknowledgment that you've read my last post and affirmation that you agree with my conclusion.

06-17-2013, 08:55 AM

#134

TonyC

Organizational Learning 

Joined APC: Nov 2005

Position: Directly behind the combiner

Posts: 4,948

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerOnWall

... the operator, who is granting travel benefit to fellow airmen/employees.

And there you have it, in a nutshell. That explains what's going on, just as HKFlyr has pointed out.

The operator extends a "travel benefit" to a large group of employees. Pilots point out that the "travel benefit" is not legal under Federal Regulations. The operator has to explain to the large group of employees that the mean, unsafe, unionized pilots are refusing to give them the "travel benefit." One employee group is pitted against another, the union employees are distracted from contract negotiations, the operator leans back in executive office chair, draws a long puff from the $200 cigar, and smiles.

It's not a "travel benefit." Any person granted access to the flight deck will be there for one single purpose -- the safe conduct of that flight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerOnWall

As PIC, you are responsible for safe operation of flight. You really think you are qualified to judge whether anyone is a threat, fellow pilot or not?

Yes. In fact, the FAA has given me that very task.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerOnWall

Pilots have been known to fly drunk, sleep, play games, read newspapers and God know's what else, while the autopilot does the work, that is probably more the truth as to why you don't want non pilot types in the cockpit, than any "safety" issue you want to make up.

And some people have made total horse's rear ends of themselves on APC and still been allowed to continue posting.

By the way, I'm in favor of allowing them to continue posting. It's cheap entertainment.

.

06-17-2013, 09:18 AM

#135

FlyerOnWall

Banned

Joined APC: Jun 2013

Posts: 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by AerisArmis

I don't know of anyone that would mess radios or anything else in the air.
I'd like to read that incident report.

06-17-2013, 09:18 AM

#136

MD11Fr8Dog

...Whatever It Is!

Joined APC: Jul 2006

Posts: 4,680

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerOnWall

You think having a mechanic riding jumpseat could be detrimental to the safe operation of the aircraft? Think again. I recall riding jumpseat in a G159, I knew the aircraft quite well. The crew had missed a preflight checklist item and as the pilot was advancing the throttles for take off I asked if the windshield heat was supposed to be on. Pilot took his hand off the throttle reached up and turned on windshield heat and said yeah, thanks. Not long after that, this happened to the same captain:

THE ACFT WAS BEING OPERATED AS GENERAL AVIATION FLT 115 & WAS DEPTG ON A ROUTINE NIGHT FLT. DRG TAKEOFF/INITIAL CLIMB, THE LEFT ENG LOST PWR. THE FLT CREW ATTEMPTED TO CONT THE CLIMB-OUT, BUT FOLLOWING THE APPLICATION OF WATER-METHANOL, THE PLT LOST DRCTNL CONTROL. SUBSEQUENTLY, THE ACFT BANKED TO THE LEFT, ENTERED A DSCNT & IMPACTED BETWEEN THE PARALLEL RWYS. AN INVESTIGATION DISCLOSED THAT THE LEFT PROPELLER'S BLADE ANGLE WAS 21 DEGS. NO PREIMPACT SYS MALFUNCTION OR FAILURE WAS FOUND. THE COCKPIT VOICE RECORDING INDICATED THAT THE FLT CREW DID NOT COMPLETE ALL OF THE ITEMS ON THE BEFORE TAXI/TAKEOFF CHECKLIST. ONE OF THE ITEMS (PRESUMABLY NOT COMPLETED) WAS A CHECK OF THE H.P. **** LEVERS. THE CHECKLIST REQUIRED THAT THE H.P. **** LEVERS BE IN 'CRUISE LOCKOUT' FOR TAKEOFF. THE LEFT H.P. **** LEVER WAS FOUND BETWEEN THE 'FUEL OFF' & 'FEATHER' POSITIONS. MOVEMENT TO THIS POSITION WOULD HAVE DEACTIVATED THE AUTO-FEATHER SYS & SHUT DOWN THE LEFT ENG.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

EMERGENCY PROCEDURE..IMPROPER..PILOT IN COMMAND

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

PROPELLER FEATHERING..NOT PERFORMED..PILOT IN COMMAND

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

PREFLIGHT PLANNING/PREPARATION..INADEQUATE..PILOT IN COMMAND

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

CHECKLIST..NOT FOLLOWED

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

REMEDIAL ACTION..NOT ATTAINED..COPILOT/SECOND PILOT

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

AIRSPEED(VMC)..NOT MAINTAINED..PILOT IN COMMAND

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

POWERPLANT CONTROLS..IMPROPER USE OF..PILOT IN COMMAND

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

FLUID,FUEL..STARVATION

Contributing Factors

LIGHT CONDITION..NIGHT

Injuries: 2 Fatal.

Had I been jumpseating, would I have caught their missed checklist item? Maybe. I sure as hell would have yelled NO! When he armed the water meth.

If my wife was on the jumpseat, she might have catch mistakes item too.