I roBOT
03-10-2013, 09:48 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 11 Capt
Posts: 509
I have no knowledge of how the bot's work, but my understanding is somewhat different.
A user inputs desired trips into a computer program, and has the computer monitor open time for said trips. Said trip becomes available in open time, since his computer is Always looking it can insert BLG requests while YOU are still waiting to see the trip summary and deciding whether to input a BLG request yourself.
Thus, the earlier time stamp reflects the actual input time.
And apparently some of these are capable of running on your home computer while you are at Altitude and should be unavailable for BLG adjustments.
I think company needs to install WIFI to level the playing field, I PROMISE I'd only use it to look at the PFC and RADAR images
99.7% was an EXPRESSION, not literal. So, it's more than 14 odd pilots-apparently enough that it's having a noticeable impact on the bandwidth of PFC.
I don't know that the bot users are Members. I do know that relatively junior folks have a higher membership percentage and that they tend to be more technologically sophisticated than our more Senior folks. (I've never had a Junior guy fail to get an email I sent, while I've had Senior Capts tell me they never look at email)
Trip trading while you are flying is an abuse of the system, I just don't know how the company can fix it. Access to open time is a contractual right, so how do you keep people from abusing that right. There is clearly a small percentage of pilots who think they are doing nothing wrong and don't understand why We're upset. Everything is ALL about THEM. To them there is an "I" in TEAM, or at least a ME-just some minor bending there to make the world match their perception of reality.
A user inputs desired trips into a computer program, and has the computer monitor open time for said trips. Said trip becomes available in open time, since his computer is Always looking it can insert BLG requests while YOU are still waiting to see the trip summary and deciding whether to input a BLG request yourself.
Thus, the earlier time stamp reflects the actual input time.
And apparently some of these are capable of running on your home computer while you are at Altitude and should be unavailable for BLG adjustments.
I think company needs to install WIFI to level the playing field, I PROMISE I'd only use it to look at the PFC and RADAR images
99.7% was an EXPRESSION, not literal. So, it's more than 14 odd pilots-apparently enough that it's having a noticeable impact on the bandwidth of PFC.
I don't know that the bot users are Members. I do know that relatively junior folks have a higher membership percentage and that they tend to be more technologically sophisticated than our more Senior folks. (I've never had a Junior guy fail to get an email I sent, while I've had Senior Capts tell me they never look at email)
Trip trading while you are flying is an abuse of the system, I just don't know how the company can fix it. Access to open time is a contractual right, so how do you keep people from abusing that right. There is clearly a small percentage of pilots who think they are doing nothing wrong and don't understand why We're upset. Everything is ALL about THEM. To them there is an "I" in TEAM, or at least a ME-just some minor bending there to make the world match their perception of reality.
03-10-2013, 10:41 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777
Posts: 564
I have no knowledge of how the bot's work, but my understanding is somewhat different.
A user inputs desired trips into a computer program, and has the computer monitor open time for said trips. Said trip becomes available in open time, since his computer is Always looking it can insert BLG requests while YOU are still waiting to see the trip summary and deciding whether to input a BLG request yourself.
. . . .
And apparently some of these are capable of running on your home computer while you are at Altitude and should be unavailable for BLG adjustments.
. . . .
Trip trading while you are flying is an abuse of the system, I just don't know how the company can fix it.
A user inputs desired trips into a computer program, and has the computer monitor open time for said trips. Said trip becomes available in open time, since his computer is Always looking it can insert BLG requests while YOU are still waiting to see the trip summary and deciding whether to input a BLG request yourself.
. . . .
And apparently some of these are capable of running on your home computer while you are at Altitude and should be unavailable for BLG adjustments.
. . . .
Trip trading while you are flying is an abuse of the system, I just don't know how the company can fix it.
and add to your knowledge base. The three (3) commercially available programs (BidX, FxCal, & MagicWebFX) will get you a list of open time trips, BUT they WILL NOT automatically input a trip trade for you. You must enter the trade and the Control Code yourself! The self-trading programs you speak of do exist and are illegal abominations
. There are methods to finger these offenders, the company only needs the will to act. For cheap open time hawkers, there are free browser add-on Scripts that allow you to automatically refresh a webpage every X seconds (think 5 or less). That's the brute force method mentioned above. It is available to every pilot and this free script method is probably responsible for more bandwidth abuse than all the commercial programs customers combined. So every pilot using these Scripts contributes to the problem as much as any commercial program user. That's why Scripts are referenced as well as bots.
The 3d party commercial programs exist because they make dealing with the website easier for the line pilot. They were not designed around their trip trade features. Face facts: Open time has always been a crap shoot outside of the morning sick window, because one never knows when a trip is going to appear (unless you have inside info). So the only thing you gain when using these programs is convenience and perhaps a little early warning (depending on your timing). Even with them, it is still a race to Manually enter the trade and the Control Code to get that earlier time stamp.
The ultimate solution is to upgrade the p.f.c website and servers to handle the traffic, but that involves a monetary investment on the company's part. Failing that, the next best solution is to somehow change the trip trade paradigm.
03-10-2013, 11:18 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 614
The company use of the simple 6 numeric digit CAPTCHA required on trades, makeups, drops and every ten open time checks is a complete JOKE. It was a feel good measure to satisfy the complainers about two years ago. The intent was to stop the hacker with a bot, while not being too difficult for the rest of us to read. FAILURE. The way too simple implementation for easy reading results in way too simple hacking for even a casual hacker.
So the current status quo:
The rule abiding pilot is hampered on every VIPS trade or makeup, and the hacker automates right past it. The hackers are laughing at management and the rest of us.
Real CAPTCHA (like the blue and gold of the eGrid, but even that should be a better scramble) should be implemented or the CAPTCHA should be removed entirely from trip trades and makeups.
The Company stated goal of fair First Come First Serve VIPS access is being hampered as much by the Company implementation as it is by the rogue pilots.
So the current status quo:
The rule abiding pilot is hampered on every VIPS trade or makeup, and the hacker automates right past it. The hackers are laughing at management and the rest of us.
Real CAPTCHA (like the blue and gold of the eGrid, but even that should be a better scramble) should be implemented or the CAPTCHA should be removed entirely from trip trades and makeups.
The Company stated goal of fair First Come First Serve VIPS access is being hampered as much by the Company implementation as it is by the rogue pilots.
03-10-2013, 11:57 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 181
Give us the Names
Then you must know who the culprits are? If so , let's hear it. Who are they? If they are non-members, all the more reason to expose them. I guess you have it narrowed down to the 52 on the non-member list. I'm sure management would love to talk to you. You're so full of crap.
03-10-2013, 12:49 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Then you must know who the culprits are? If so , let's hear it. Who are they? If they are non-members, all the more reason to expose them. I guess you have it narrowed down to the 52 on the non-member list. I'm sure management would love to talk to you. You're so full of crap.
So I wonder what offends you more (actually it means nothing to me) the fact that pilots and union members are screwing each other or that I pointed it out.
03-10-2013, 12:59 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 181
Speaking of full of crap, nice to hear from you. You challenged me. If you have some evidence that I am wrong let's here it. I like my odds. Management does not need my help, they know who they are, they just don't care about the trip trading. They certainly care about their security. Otherwise they would continue to do what they have done for the last 3 years, ignore the problem.
So I wonder what offends you more (actually it means nothing to me) the fact that pilots and union members are screwing each other or that I pointed it out.
So I wonder what offends you more (actually it means nothing to me) the fact that pilots and union members are screwing each other or that I pointed it out.
03-10-2013, 01:05 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Hee Hee, good one.
I never said I had the names while you have proclaimed the botmasters are the non members who generally sit at the top of the seniority list and have trouble printing the Sudoku page in AOC. When management passes the names to me I'll let you know.
I never said I had the names while you have proclaimed the botmasters are the non members who generally sit at the top of the seniority list and have trouble printing the Sudoku page in AOC. When management passes the names to me I'll let you know.
03-10-2013, 01:10 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 181
Enough!
Okay, enough. I simply asked the question, who said that they were "association" members? YOU CAN'T PROVIDE THE NAMES, SO YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT THEY ARE ALPA MEMBERS! That's it. See ya -- tool.
03-10-2013, 04:07 PM
#40
Ok, No more sleeping Dog
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD-11, F/O
Posts: 889
I'm not surprised. However, I'd say the game has changed now that an official policy statement has been issued. It'll be hard to claim ignorance in the future. I'd guess those in violation in the future would be looking at a minimum of some time off.
BTW, do you happen to know the outcome from those already contacted?
BTW, do you happen to know the outcome from those already contacted?
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