Dadof6

Insight? No, but they've been calling for A300 FO draft numerous times the last couple months (even with the buy-up), so yep...it's PRIME time for an excess bid.

But the handwriting appears to be on the wall--757/767/777 flying will probably expand, the Bus flying will probably contract (NextGen vs. FMS anyone?), and MD-10/11??? (no clue).

FXDX

I will give this another shot mike.

It may be an oversight or coincidence as you suggest, the 57 wasn't on the property when that language was written and the example chart drafted, maybe they didn't foresee the need to address lateral moves as the 27 was the only narrow body.

If so then it is the rare case that some of the pilots actually benefit from an ambiguity in the contract instead of the company.

You seem to begrudge the flexes making passover pay, but that is the contract and they are simply exercising their options under the contract.

If it makes you feel any better they will lose their passover pay on the day the bid closes, and will be locked out for 2 years from bidding up to wide body again.

Now if they figure out a way to get that waived you may have a legitimate beef with them, and I am sure the union leadership will be right there with you.

Sluggo_63

My information is a couple of years old, but when I was an engineer LCA on the 72, the question was asked about SOs that are receiving widebody POP who bid to the 757, and this is what I remember we were told.

If you are receiving widebody POP and bid to the 757, you will not have to repay any of the accrued POP, but you will immediately stop getting ALL POP (revert back to SO pay) and will be put in the first available 757 class. This didn't apply to a FO who, for whatever reason, was only getting 727FO POP.

The Walrus

Maybe they're going to pay it back. I know a giy that just wrote a check for 70k.

av8rmike

No, I don't begrudge instructors POP. I actually think the Section 11 requirements are pretty goofy regarding all the hoops they have to jump through to get POP. I think they are under-compensated for the work involved. Other (read more enlightened airlines) treat their instructors like they value them. Pay as an instructor is based on what you can hold, no goofy waiting around for subsequent bids and junior guys to train out. No POP, just when you get checked out your pay goes up. When you leave, your pay reflects what you bid. But then again, I also think Section 11 was concessionary wrt instructors on the last go-around (think offsite training: instructor working away from home gets 4.6 hrs credit, but the guy on a 24hr layover at the same location gets 6.4 hrs credit?...).

Their POP will not stop until they complete training on the 757. Let's see if there are any shell games played with the training letter allowing them to hang around to the bitter end drawing WB POP. Every instructor I know was told the ultimate result of POP was you would end up on that airplane, so bid what you want to fly. Didn't happen here, so it kind of made me go "hmmmmm".

FXDX

Glad to hear that you are ok with the flexes for getting passover as appropriate, my apologies for drawing a different conclusion from your posts.

From what I was told, though, the passover would stop at the close of the bid if you did the down/lateral bid. I could be wrong. If so, however, I would have waited for the excess had I been in that situation so that the pay would continue until activation in the new seat.

I wasn't in that situation so its no skin off my nose, but I am glad the ambiguity worked out in the flexes' favor this time.

FDX28

If they wait for the excess, most would go to the MD11. There have been more than a few long time 727 pilots who failed training. Fail training for a wide body - pay it all back. Fail training for their new bid seat (757) no harm...

av8rmike

Aaaahhhh.... Mystery solved. Thanks!