FDX-HKG Arbitrations
11-08-2012, 12:48 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 260
The $64,000 question?
Did the recent person, who was put back to work, use their own attorney or ALPA's?
My understanding is pretty much all of the HK4 went with their own attorneys as ALPA wanted them to take the (so-called) Amnesty...that included their admission to defrauding the company. And they said no way to that.
(And just thinking out loud, to further muddy the waters, in my time here, FDX NEVER tolerated lying or stealing. Why now did they offer this special deal to people they consider to be liars and cheaters? Methinks this doth smell of dog excrement as this was nothing other than a very poorly managed issue from both ALPA's and FDX's part by not coming to an agreement on improved/defined language that would have prevented this mess in the first place)
Glad someone had a positive result though...(well, better than being on the street at least)
On a brighter note, glad the election is done.(well, maybe not a brighter note...lol)
My understanding is pretty much all of the HK4 went with their own attorneys as ALPA wanted them to take the (so-called) Amnesty...that included their admission to defrauding the company. And they said no way to that.
(And just thinking out loud, to further muddy the waters, in my time here, FDX NEVER tolerated lying or stealing. Why now did they offer this special deal to people they consider to be liars and cheaters? Methinks this doth smell of dog excrement as this was nothing other than a very poorly managed issue from both ALPA's and FDX's part by not coming to an agreement on improved/defined language that would have prevented this mess in the first place)
Glad someone had a positive result though...(well, better than being on the street at least)
On a brighter note, glad the election is done.(well, maybe not a brighter note...lol)
11-08-2012, 11:51 AM
#14
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD-11 Capt
Posts: 915
11-11-2012, 04:47 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
Just returned from the Family Awareness meeting that was held in South Windsor, Connecticut, and it was great to see old friends and their wives. The meeting was lightly attended, but included Scott S and Jim M (representing FedEx ALPA), as well as a number of other pilots and their wives and in some cases, their kids.
Scott spent a good deal of time talking about the state of contract negotiations and a few other topics, and then addressed questions put forth by the audience.
This is what I took away from his comments about the HK-4:
1. There were initially almost 50 pilots who the company wanted to subject to discipline, but ALPA got that whittled down to just the 4 in question.
2. Two of the four hired their own lawyers while the other two went with ALPA attorneys.
3. All four were offered reinstatement, with the proviso that they sign a document and forfeit 2 months pay, while not having to pay back any of the monies that FedEx had initially said they had misappropriated. As to what that document said in full, I'm not sure, but SS did say that the four were not required to admit guilt in any way, shape or form.
4. As has been reported, the one pilot accepted reinstatement and is now, I believe, in training.
5. For reasons unclear to SS, the other three refused to accept the deal and elected to take their individual cases to arbitration, which is where they currently are in the process. Scott felt that the three had been given some bad advise, which resulted in their not accepting the amnesty that was offered by the company.
6. Scott mentioned that he felt the ALPA lawyers were much more savvy than the non-ALPA lawyers hired by the other two.
JJ
Scott spent a good deal of time talking about the state of contract negotiations and a few other topics, and then addressed questions put forth by the audience.
This is what I took away from his comments about the HK-4:
1. There were initially almost 50 pilots who the company wanted to subject to discipline, but ALPA got that whittled down to just the 4 in question.
2. Two of the four hired their own lawyers while the other two went with ALPA attorneys.
3. All four were offered reinstatement, with the proviso that they sign a document and forfeit 2 months pay, while not having to pay back any of the monies that FedEx had initially said they had misappropriated. As to what that document said in full, I'm not sure, but SS did say that the four were not required to admit guilt in any way, shape or form.
4. As has been reported, the one pilot accepted reinstatement and is now, I believe, in training.
5. For reasons unclear to SS, the other three refused to accept the deal and elected to take their individual cases to arbitration, which is where they currently are in the process. Scott felt that the three had been given some bad advise, which resulted in their not accepting the amnesty that was offered by the company.
6. Scott mentioned that he felt the ALPA lawyers were much more savvy than the non-ALPA lawyers hired by the other two.
JJ
11-11-2012, 09:54 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 331
Just returned from the Family Awareness meeting that was held in South Windsor, Connecticut, and it was great to see old friends and their wives. The meeting was lightly attended, but included Scott S and Jim M (representing FedEx ALPA), as well as a number of other pilots and their wives and in some cases, their kids.
Scott spent a good deal of time talking about the state of contract negotiations and a few other topics, and then addressed questions put forth by the audience.
This is what I took away from his comments about the HK-4:
1. There were initially almost 50 pilots who the company wanted to subject to discipline, but ALPA got that whittled down to just the 4 in question.
2. Two of the four hired their own lawyers while the other two went with ALPA attorneys.
3. All four were offered reinstatement, with the proviso that they sign a document and forfeit 2 months pay, while not having to pay back any of the monies that FedEx had initially said they had misappropriated. As to what that document said in full, I'm not sure, but SS did say that the four were not required to admit guilt in any way, shape or form.
4. As has been reported, the one pilot accepted reinstatement and is now, I believe, in training.
5. For reasons unclear to SS, the other three refused to accept the deal and elected to take their individual cases to arbitration, which is where they currently are in the process. Scott felt that the three had been given some bad advise, which resulted in their not accepting the amnesty that was offered by the company.
6. Scott mentioned that he felt the ALPA lawyers were much more savvy than the non-ALPA lawyers hired by the other two.
JJ
Scott spent a good deal of time talking about the state of contract negotiations and a few other topics, and then addressed questions put forth by the audience.
This is what I took away from his comments about the HK-4:
1. There were initially almost 50 pilots who the company wanted to subject to discipline, but ALPA got that whittled down to just the 4 in question.
2. Two of the four hired their own lawyers while the other two went with ALPA attorneys.
3. All four were offered reinstatement, with the proviso that they sign a document and forfeit 2 months pay, while not having to pay back any of the monies that FedEx had initially said they had misappropriated. As to what that document said in full, I'm not sure, but SS did say that the four were not required to admit guilt in any way, shape or form.
4. As has been reported, the one pilot accepted reinstatement and is now, I believe, in training.
5. For reasons unclear to SS, the other three refused to accept the deal and elected to take their individual cases to arbitration, which is where they currently are in the process. Scott felt that the three had been given some bad advise, which resulted in their not accepting the amnesty that was offered by the company.
6. Scott mentioned that he felt the ALPA lawyers were much more savvy than the non-ALPA lawyers hired by the other two.
JJ
11-12-2012, 02:19 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: moving target
Posts: 385
Just returned from the Family Awareness meeting that was held in South Windsor, Connecticut, and it was great to see old friends and their wives. The meeting was lightly attended, but included Scott S and Jim M (representing FedEx ALPA), as well as a number of other pilots and their wives and in some cases, their kids.
Scott spent a good deal of time talking about the state of contract negotiations and a few other topics, and then addressed questions put forth by the audience.
This is what I took away from his comments about the HK-4:
1. There were initially almost 50 pilots who the company wanted to subject to discipline, but ALPA got that whittled down to just the 4 in question.
2. Two of the four hired their own lawyers while the other two went with ALPA attorneys.
3. All four were offered reinstatement, with the proviso that they sign a document and forfeit 2 months pay, while not having to pay back any of the monies that FedEx had initially said they had misappropriated. As to what that document said in full, I'm not sure, but SS did say that the four were not required to admit guilt in any way, shape or form.
4. As has been reported, the one pilot accepted reinstatement and is now, I believe, in training.
5. For reasons unclear to SS, the other three refused to accept the deal and elected to take their individual cases to arbitration, which is where they currently are in the process. Scott felt that the three had been given some bad advise, which resulted in their not accepting the amnesty that was offered by the company.
6. Scott mentioned that he felt the ALPA lawyers were much more savvy than the non-ALPA lawyers hired by the other two.
JJ
Scott spent a good deal of time talking about the state of contract negotiations and a few other topics, and then addressed questions put forth by the audience.
This is what I took away from his comments about the HK-4:
1. There were initially almost 50 pilots who the company wanted to subject to discipline, but ALPA got that whittled down to just the 4 in question.
2. Two of the four hired their own lawyers while the other two went with ALPA attorneys.
3. All four were offered reinstatement, with the proviso that they sign a document and forfeit 2 months pay, while not having to pay back any of the monies that FedEx had initially said they had misappropriated. As to what that document said in full, I'm not sure, but SS did say that the four were not required to admit guilt in any way, shape or form.
4. As has been reported, the one pilot accepted reinstatement and is now, I believe, in training.
5. For reasons unclear to SS, the other three refused to accept the deal and elected to take their individual cases to arbitration, which is where they currently are in the process. Scott felt that the three had been given some bad advise, which resulted in their not accepting the amnesty that was offered by the company.
6. Scott mentioned that he felt the ALPA lawyers were much more savvy than the non-ALPA lawyers hired by the other two.
JJ
11-12-2012, 04:56 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Airbus 320 Right Seat
Posts: 1,440
For those of use that don't know the story , what was the accused crime for these 5 guys, can someone explain a general idea of what happened ?
I have an idea , but would like to hear it from people who actually have good source
I have an idea , but would like to hear it from people who actually have good source
11-12-2012, 05:19 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 2,115
11-12-2012, 05:33 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 260
Revisionist history is putting it mildly and kindly. Distorted is more accurate on how many people out here would categorize SS and his "version" of the circumstances. It disagrees with some his own past statements and statements in the message lines...the few they actually put out on the subject.
Here is a statement from one of the pilots...seems to be at odds with SS version...
• In the “HKG Appeal” letter, the VP claimed that the company offered
me “very accommodating” “amnesty program”, if one can call the
following accommodating: a 5 year probation, two months disciplinary
suspension, waving just about every right one has on the planet, and
to top it off, admitting stealing and cheating and acknowledging that
“just cause” exits for the company to terminate me. I want my job
back, and had seriously considered accepting the company's terms, but
at the end, my heart would not let me, not under these terms, as I
didn’t deceive the company at all, just the opposite, I have been open
and forthrigh, but the company has not.
I'm sure more will come out on this...and there will be some difference of opinion on what really happened and what offers were really made.
And the list had 21 "suspects". The 4 that were terminated were not even on that list. And that ALPA negotiated that down from 50 is pretty comical, that is news here in HK...
Here is a statement from one of the pilots...seems to be at odds with SS version...
• In the “HKG Appeal” letter, the VP claimed that the company offered
me “very accommodating” “amnesty program”, if one can call the
following accommodating: a 5 year probation, two months disciplinary
suspension, waving just about every right one has on the planet, and
to top it off, admitting stealing and cheating and acknowledging that
“just cause” exits for the company to terminate me. I want my job
back, and had seriously considered accepting the company's terms, but
at the end, my heart would not let me, not under these terms, as I
didn’t deceive the company at all, just the opposite, I have been open
and forthrigh, but the company has not.
I'm sure more will come out on this...and there will be some difference of opinion on what really happened and what offers were really made.
And the list had 21 "suspects". The 4 that were terminated were not even on that list. And that ALPA negotiated that down from 50 is pretty comical, that is news here in HK...
Last edited by HKFlyr; 11-12-2012 at 05:37 AM. Reason: Spelling
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