Gunter

After you are assigned a trip, can't it be revised later up to 3 days? Seems to happen a bit with int'l trips.

Gunter

You'll get the earlier time stamp response if someone uses OTP (PMU) with a time stamp later than yours.

MaxKts

I think we all know what scheduling can do to Intl pairings.

Olly is referring to a single R-day left. In ANC it would be very difficult for them to create a legal 1 day pairing and then revise it after you launched.

DixieFlyer

Nice attitude. This guy comes on APC to look into PBS and maybe shed some light on scheduling practices, and you make a few very unflattering assumptions. No wonder we're one of the least-liked work groups on campus.

Anyone that survived SOC Scheduling at Pinnacle and works to make our silly scheduling beefs work out (let alone finding time to fly on the side) has earned my respect.

DLax85

Good point, I've found many guys don't know this.

It would be nice if being trumped by PMU was specifically stated in the denial.

That's gotta be an easy software fix

AFW_MD11

for anyone who might know the real answer to this.....

Scenario:

Trip pops into Open Time.....

How long does the computer allow (or scheduler allow) for a PMU guy to put in a request for the trip in order to "trump" a General Makeup request?

is there a set time period to allow PMU requests before processing General Makeup? if so, what is that time period? (hint: it obviously isn't in the contract and is thus being arbitrarily imposed by the company)

or.....

If I'm Johnny-on-the-spot (or maybe have a "bot" program) & immediately request the trip as General Makeup - is the company "obligated" by anything (contract/LOA/MOU) to provide pilots with PMU a set time window in which to put in a PMU request that would "trump" my General Makeup request - or can they award it to me right away without allowing a PMU window of opportunity?

It would make sense that there SHOULD be a time period allowed for PMU requests to come in, but sometimes, the reality appears that the process is devoid of any real constraints/parameters/rules/accountability.

What good is it to have a PMU bank when the scheduler could (not saying they do this) phone a friend to alert them to a trip coming open & award it to them right away (General Makeup) within seconds of it appearing on the Open Time list - with no opportunity for the PMU pilot to even put in a request before it's gone?

always wondered how certain pilots seem to be "lucky" enough to grab literally ALL the "good deal" charter/double-dh trips - month after month after month.....

CloudSailor

The only solution I see is completely taking schedulers out of the equation by having fully-automated software which is transparent to all pilots. My previous airline had it, and it was great. As many on here have posted, trip swaps/drops/pick-ups took about 3 seconds to complete. Either Approved or Denied, you would know immediately. Everything done on a first come/first served basis, except for the view/add equivalent there which was awarded by seniority. Not only that, but all bidding (monthly, vacation, training, reserve 'aggressive bidding' etc.) was simple and easy. All done by mouse or phone app on a single window. No typing in control codes and dates and trip numbers and going back and forth between different windows.

This software, FLiCA, is used by about 10 different airlines (I believe Delta, USAir, Frontier, Air Wisconsin, and a few others). At my place, the union paid for it (not sure how much, but I am sure we can afford it). The company was happy as long as all trips were covered properly, and we paid $5 out of pocket/month only if we wanted access to the system outside of the workplace computers. This was at an airline that when all profits are combined for the last 10 years, they still don't approach one quarter of profits at FedEx. How is it possible that we are stuck using VIPS?

If management won't freely institue a change to better software for all bidding, IMO, we should have this as a priority during negotiations (aside from keeping retirement and vacation intact).

9ESOCCFI

Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but I found 25.L.4.b.

The submission shall be processed in the order received among other submissions in OTP status, but ahead of all other open time submissions. This priority is guaranteed only for PMU submissions made prior to 0900 LBT, at least 48 hours prior to the showtime of the identified trip.

The way that I read it is that after 0900 LBT at least 48 prior to the trip. All m/u requests, no matter what kind, are processed in the order they are received. PMU is only given priority up too 0900 LBT at least 48 hours prior to the trip.

My apologies if this is not what you were looking for.

Adlerdriver

I think AFW's point was if the PMU guy never knows there is a trip in open time to request as PMU because it spent less than 5 minutes in OT before it was taken as general m/u, then all of the above is moot.

In my experience, I can't see how any delay is possibly available to someone with PMU. I've watched trips disappear within minutes of arrival in OT. The only variable seems to be how aware the scheduler is that there is a m/u request in the queue and how quickly they feel like "processing".

Magenta Line

At brand X, they process open time trips at regular scheduled intervals throughout the day AND in seniority order. I know that raises the cockles of those of us who are junior, but this method does avoid bots and the PMU makeup problem.