DH Bank Question
12-03-2012, 05:23 AM
#11
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Retired
Posts: 42
Anywhere to anywhere is perfectly legal and acceptable if done within three days.
A few months ago I finished a trip in ANC, jumpseated to HKG, expensed two days in the Sheraton, and expensed a ticket to CRK. The only part Crew Travel balked on was the second day in the Sheraton. I thought 48 hours enroute on an international was OK but they would only pay for one day in the hotel. By the way I'm based in MEM and don't live near any of the mentioned cities.
Those of you that question whether this is the right thing to do should think about refunding FDX any pay and or per diem earned while sitting at home on the clock due to deviating before or after a trip.
Dogbone
A few months ago I finished a trip in ANC, jumpseated to HKG, expensed two days in the Sheraton, and expensed a ticket to CRK. The only part Crew Travel balked on was the second day in the Sheraton. I thought 48 hours enroute on an international was OK but they would only pay for one day in the hotel. By the way I'm based in MEM and don't live near any of the mentioned cities.
Those of you that question whether this is the right thing to do should think about refunding FDX any pay and or per diem earned while sitting at home on the clock due to deviating before or after a trip.
Dogbone
12-03-2012, 05:46 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 777
Posts: 866
Of course it's the right thing to do. Heck, if I were the Security SVP at FDX, I'd pay for a ticket for anybody that stuck up their paw and said, "Why sure I'll go through all the hoops on my time off to become an FFDO and enhance our fleet's overall security." [BTW, I'm not an FFDO but certainly respect and appreciate those who are.]
Whenever the company and our Negotiating Committee finally hammer out a rolling 3-month travel bank for the rest of the pilots like they've started to do for the CGN folks, THEN I won't feel bad about legally squeezing every last $ out of my travel bank for a given month. Last month I'm out big bucks because AA first-class approved fare to/from Europe is only $2200, and I chose to deviate. (And I'm fine with paying out-of-pocket for that privilege). But if this month I stay $1500 in the positive (due to other deviating choices), that all resets to zero at the end of the month. So I repeat your question back....Is that the right thing to do?
As they say on Monday Night Countdown, "C'mon man!"
Whenever the company and our Negotiating Committee finally hammer out a rolling 3-month travel bank for the rest of the pilots like they've started to do for the CGN folks, THEN I won't feel bad about legally squeezing every last $ out of my travel bank for a given month. Last month I'm out big bucks because AA first-class approved fare to/from Europe is only $2200, and I chose to deviate. (And I'm fine with paying out-of-pocket for that privilege). But if this month I stay $1500 in the positive (due to other deviating choices), that all resets to zero at the end of the month. So I repeat your question back....Is that the right thing to do?
As they say on Monday Night Countdown, "C'mon man!"
12-03-2012, 12:45 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,419
And, there's been more than the occasional trip where I've started earlier than the scheduled show.
Sorry I see the question as a bit grayer than you Dogbone. In your example, you deviated and went to where you needed to be without transiting home.
For those who don't access the contract-here's some of the verbiage
"to or from a pilot’s base to position to/from a scheduled assignment."
anywhere to anywhere as long as it's within 3 days is something I just can't find.
I've got a bit of bank money left this month, and I've got a trip that I'm DH'ing home from just prior to Christmas earlier than the scheduled. (eg I get home Thursday versus the Friday schedule) Does that mean it's totally copacetic if I buy a ticket to go visit my parents on Sunday then buy another one to fly home on Monday.
All of that travel is within 3 days, but I'm not planning on emailing my ACP to ask if he's okay with that.
FWIW-I also don't take reams of paper home from the copy room because Mgt screwed me out of travel money
12-03-2012, 12:50 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,419
Of course it's the right thing to do. Heck, if I were the Security SVP at FDX, I'd pay for a ticket for anybody that stuck up their paw and said, "Why sure I'll go through all the hoops on my time off to become an FFDO and enhance our fleet's overall security." [BTW, I'm not an FFDO but certainly respect and appreciate those who are.]
Whenever the company and our Negotiating Committee finally hammer out a rolling 3-month travel bank for the rest of the pilots like they've started to do for the CGN folks, THEN I won't feel bad about legally squeezing every last $ out of my travel bank for a given month. Last month I'm out big bucks because AA first-class approved fare to/from Europe is only $2200, and I chose to deviate. (And I'm fine with paying out-of-pocket for that privilege). But if this month I stay $1500 in the positive (due to other deviating choices), that all resets to zero at the end of the month. So I repeat your question back....Is that the right thing to do?
As they say on Monday Night Countdown, "C'mon man!"
Whenever the company and our Negotiating Committee finally hammer out a rolling 3-month travel bank for the rest of the pilots like they've started to do for the CGN folks, THEN I won't feel bad about legally squeezing every last $ out of my travel bank for a given month. Last month I'm out big bucks because AA first-class approved fare to/from Europe is only $2200, and I chose to deviate. (And I'm fine with paying out-of-pocket for that privilege). But if this month I stay $1500 in the positive (due to other deviating choices), that all resets to zero at the end of the month. So I repeat your question back....Is that the right thing to do?
As they say on Monday Night Countdown, "C'mon man!"
12-03-2012, 01:34 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 556
Of course it's the right thing to do. Heck, if I were the Security SVP at FDX, I'd pay for a ticket for anybody that stuck up their paw and said, "Why sure I'll go through all the hoops on my time off to become an FFDO and enhance our fleet's overall security." [BTW, I'm not an FFDO but certainly respect and appreciate those who are.]
Whenever the company and our Negotiating Committee finally hammer out a rolling 3-month travel bank for the rest of the pilots like they've started to do for the CGN folks, THEN I won't feel bad about legally squeezing every last $ out of my travel bank for a given month. Last month I'm out big bucks because AA first-class approved fare to/from Europe is only $2200, and I chose to deviate. (And I'm fine with paying out-of-pocket for that privilege). But if this month I stay $1500 in the positive (due to other deviating choices), that all resets to zero at the end of the month. So I repeat your question back....Is that the right thing to do?
As they say on Monday Night Countdown, "C'mon man!"
Whenever the company and our Negotiating Committee finally hammer out a rolling 3-month travel bank for the rest of the pilots like they've started to do for the CGN folks, THEN I won't feel bad about legally squeezing every last $ out of my travel bank for a given month. Last month I'm out big bucks because AA first-class approved fare to/from Europe is only $2200, and I chose to deviate. (And I'm fine with paying out-of-pocket for that privilege). But if this month I stay $1500 in the positive (due to other deviating choices), that all resets to zero at the end of the month. So I repeat your question back....Is that the right thing to do?
As they say on Monday Night Countdown, "C'mon man!"
12-03-2012, 01:52 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Trunk Monkey
Posts: 562
But hope & logic matter not--it's what is negotiated that counts.
12-03-2012, 02:48 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Except, contract says you will be paid as if you started in base.
And, there's been more than the occasional trip where I've started earlier than the scheduled show.
Sorry I see the question as a bit grayer than you Dogbone. In your example, you deviated and went to where you needed to be without transiting home.
For those who don't access the contract-here's some of the verbiage
"to or from a pilot’s base to position to/from a scheduled assignment."
anywhere to anywhere as long as it's within 3 days is something I just can't find.
I've got a bit of bank money left this month, and I've got a trip that I'm DH'ing home from just prior to Christmas earlier than the scheduled. (eg I get home Thursday versus the Friday schedule) Does that mean it's totally copacetic if I buy a ticket to go visit my parents on Sunday then buy another one to fly home on Monday.
All of that travel is within 3 days, but I'm not planning on emailing my ACP to ask if he's okay with that.
FWIW-I also don't take reams of paper home from the copy room because Mgt screwed me out of travel money
And, there's been more than the occasional trip where I've started earlier than the scheduled show.
Sorry I see the question as a bit grayer than you Dogbone. In your example, you deviated and went to where you needed to be without transiting home.
For those who don't access the contract-here's some of the verbiage
"to or from a pilot’s base to position to/from a scheduled assignment."
anywhere to anywhere as long as it's within 3 days is something I just can't find.
I've got a bit of bank money left this month, and I've got a trip that I'm DH'ing home from just prior to Christmas earlier than the scheduled. (eg I get home Thursday versus the Friday schedule) Does that mean it's totally copacetic if I buy a ticket to go visit my parents on Sunday then buy another one to fly home on Monday.
All of that travel is within 3 days, but I'm not planning on emailing my ACP to ask if he's okay with that.
FWIW-I also don't take reams of paper home from the copy room because Mgt screwed me out of travel money
8.C.3.a.i.In the following circumstances, air travel expenses are allowable/reimbursable:
(a) to or from a pilot’s base to position to/from a scheduled assignment.
(b) deviation from scheduled deadhead travel.
(c) deviation from scheduled deadhead travel betweena pilot’s base and training conducted away from his base.
You quoted (a) I quoted (b). I am pretty sure a lawyer will tell you that all three dont have to positive in order for you to qualify. Any item on its own is a qualifying expense. In my opinion (a) gets you to or from memphis or to and from a start of the trip. (c) is self explanatory. And (B) is the issue. I hope we all agree that the OP can buy a ticket from Mem to Aus layover 24 hours and then travel to ABQ for any reason whatsoever on the company dime.
I still think (b) is a blank check but I would not exceed the domestic (or international) deviation layover limitiations. But would be interested to know what the union or the accountants think.
12-03-2012, 07:00 PM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Retired
Posts: 42
Except, contract says you will be paid as if you started in base.
And, there's been more than the occasional trip where I've started earlier than the scheduled show.
Sorry I see the question as a bit grayer than you Dogbone. In your example, you deviated and went to where you needed to be without transiting home.
I've done exactly what you are talking about many times over the past 15 years and never had an issue with Crew Travel Audit. Though it isn't spelled out clearly this is how they have interpreted it.
For those who don't access the contract-here's some of the verbiage
"to or from a pilot’s base to position to/from a scheduled assignment."
anywhere to anywhere as long as it's within 3 days is something I just can't find.
8.C.4.d.
"Travel claimed as a deviation expense must begin or end within 3 days of the scheduled assignment to/from which the pilot is deviating (e.g. scheduled deadhead, trip or R-day) and must proceed to the intended destination of the deviation with no greater than a 24 hour delay enroute, domestically, and a 48 hour delay enroute internationally." I think they consider your intended destination anywhere.
I've got a bit of bank money left this month, and I've got a trip that I'm DH'ing home from just prior to Christmas earlier than the scheduled. (eg I get home Thursday versus the Friday schedule) Does that mean it's totally copacetic if I buy a ticket to go visit my parents on Sunday then buy another one to fly home on Monday.
All of that travel is within 3 days, but I'm not planning on emailing my ACP to ask if he's okay with that.
I would try an email to clarify it with Crew Travel Audit.
FWIW-I also don't take reams of paper home from the copy room because Mgt screwed me out of travel money
And, there's been more than the occasional trip where I've started earlier than the scheduled show.
Sorry I see the question as a bit grayer than you Dogbone. In your example, you deviated and went to where you needed to be without transiting home.
I've done exactly what you are talking about many times over the past 15 years and never had an issue with Crew Travel Audit. Though it isn't spelled out clearly this is how they have interpreted it.
For those who don't access the contract-here's some of the verbiage
"to or from a pilot’s base to position to/from a scheduled assignment."
anywhere to anywhere as long as it's within 3 days is something I just can't find.
8.C.4.d.
"Travel claimed as a deviation expense must begin or end within 3 days of the scheduled assignment to/from which the pilot is deviating (e.g. scheduled deadhead, trip or R-day) and must proceed to the intended destination of the deviation with no greater than a 24 hour delay enroute, domestically, and a 48 hour delay enroute internationally." I think they consider your intended destination anywhere.
I've got a bit of bank money left this month, and I've got a trip that I'm DH'ing home from just prior to Christmas earlier than the scheduled. (eg I get home Thursday versus the Friday schedule) Does that mean it's totally copacetic if I buy a ticket to go visit my parents on Sunday then buy another one to fly home on Monday.
All of that travel is within 3 days, but I'm not planning on emailing my ACP to ask if he's okay with that.
I would try an email to clarify it with Crew Travel Audit.
FWIW-I also don't take reams of paper home from the copy room because Mgt screwed me out of travel money
12-04-2012, 10:40 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,419
Not sure what you mean Dogbone.
Do you mean you've bought a ticket home-then a day later bought a ticket to somewhere else?
Or you've bought a ticket somewhere else at the end of your trip (or R days if you were in Memphis)
Also not sure of the logic-our deviation policies will only continue as long as people spend every last $
I think we have the best policy because it is in the companies interest. FDX productivity gains, and the resulting need for fewer pilots on the payroll, is the driver behind our DH policies. (Same reason the company will never push for the elimination of carryover-mgt has to love having guys willing to do extra work at straight time every month)
Do you mean you've bought a ticket home-then a day later bought a ticket to somewhere else?
Or you've bought a ticket somewhere else at the end of your trip (or R days if you were in Memphis)
Also not sure of the logic-our deviation policies will only continue as long as people spend every last $
I think we have the best policy because it is in the companies interest. FDX productivity gains, and the resulting need for fewer pilots on the payroll, is the driver behind our DH policies. (Same reason the company will never push for the elimination of carryover-mgt has to love having guys willing to do extra work at straight time every month)
12-04-2012, 04:15 PM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Retired
Posts: 42
"Not sure what you mean Dogbone."
"Do you mean you've bought a ticket home-then a day later bought a ticket to somewhere else?"
Yes dozens of times.
"Also not sure of the logic-our deviation policies will only continue as long as people spend every last $"
That is not what I'm advocating. I've left thousands of $$$ on the table over the years. What I'm saying is if MGT sees that we aren't taking advantage of all the nice perks of the policy they may want to make a grab. You may remember years ago when a fare came in above the accepted amount we used to get credit for the higher fare in your deviation bank that month. All you had to do was show the auditor that corporate travel had purchased a ticket for the higher amount. This policy changed when FPA was in charge and it was lost forever. I believe ALPA later grieved it and lost because we had let it go on for so long.
"I think we have the best policy because it is in the companies interest. FDX productivity gains, and the resulting need for fewer pilots on the payroll, is the driver behind our DH policies. (Same reason the company will never push for the elimination of carryover-mgt has to love having guys willing to do extra work at straight time every month)"
Not sure how our deviation policy contributes to productivity gains but I agree with your thoughts on carryover.
"Do you mean you've bought a ticket home-then a day later bought a ticket to somewhere else?"
Yes dozens of times.
"Also not sure of the logic-our deviation policies will only continue as long as people spend every last $"
That is not what I'm advocating. I've left thousands of $$$ on the table over the years. What I'm saying is if MGT sees that we aren't taking advantage of all the nice perks of the policy they may want to make a grab. You may remember years ago when a fare came in above the accepted amount we used to get credit for the higher fare in your deviation bank that month. All you had to do was show the auditor that corporate travel had purchased a ticket for the higher amount. This policy changed when FPA was in charge and it was lost forever. I believe ALPA later grieved it and lost because we had let it go on for so long.
"I think we have the best policy because it is in the companies interest. FDX productivity gains, and the resulting need for fewer pilots on the payroll, is the driver behind our DH policies. (Same reason the company will never push for the elimination of carryover-mgt has to love having guys willing to do extra work at straight time every month)"
Not sure how our deviation policy contributes to productivity gains but I agree with your thoughts on carryover.
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