Gunter

The mistake you make is assuming we have to meet somewhere between where we are and their opener. Our contract is amenable and will not expire if we don't agree.

We will not trade anything to water down retirement. Your, and your supporters, fears are unjustified.

But that hasn't stopped the propaganda machine from churning it out.

Gunter

This is where you belong Tony.

You like to share your opinion and argue it. No one want to listen and learn anything on the forums.

RedeyeAV8r

True, but we ratified a Bridge TA and our Former Negotiating Committee Chairman either got canned or quit due to all the in fighting. As always Pilots are their own worst enemy.

MaxKts

You make me laugh!

TonyC

You are amenable, our CBA is amendable.


But you don't seem very interested in amending it. You seem to be content with what we've got -- be patient, don't make mistakes. Can't make any mistakes if we don't do anything, right? Hey, I wonder if they'll give us another 3% if we leave everything the way it is.

Meanwhile, a whole list of items identified by surveys, polls, e-mails, and input from committee volunteers and our Block Reps is ignored. Accepted fares, deviation banks, real-time trip trading, reserve transparency, §4.A.2.b. ... the list goes on of things we want to fix. None of it gets fixed until we amend our contract.

But, unless The Company has a reason to negotiate -- I mean really negotiate, not just show up for sessions -- we get none of that. Apathy on our part works just fine for them.






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seefive

[QUOTE=TonyC;1258291]I apologize for not making it clear. As Busboy said, we entered Section Six negotiations over two years ago. That's when we swapped Openers, with us telling The Company what sections we wanted to change, and The Company telling us what sections they wanted to change. Section 28 Retirement was on their list.

Since that time, we have been in one sort or another of negotiations, talks, or discussions, except for a brief pause to ratify a contract. Our Negotiating Committee has met with their labor attorneys regularly over the course of the 2+ years, and we still haven't received their proposal about Section 28 Retirement. What are they waiting for? When will they drop the bomb?

HIFLYR -- I don't think we need to know the specifics. If I read a Negotiationg Committee Update that says, "We've received The Company's proposal on Section 28 Retirement and we are crafting a counterproposal," then I at least know it's something within the realm of reasonable. If I read, "We've received The Company's proposal on Section 28 Retirement, and we are very disappointed in the direction they want to go," I know to be concerned. If I read, "We are still waiting for The Company to give us their proposal they've had over two years to work on," I know they're not terribly serious about getting this thing done under the Interim Process in order to achieve The Company's stated goal of labor peace.





You've certainly seen more, and it's certainly easier to communicate in the open. It's a lot easier not having to go through the Communications Review Protocol (the "Chop Chain") to get something published, especially when the officers and attorneys don't like what you're saying, and they have the power of the editing pen. It's also a lot easier to speak as a "private citizen" instead of as a fiduciary of the Association.

What you didn't see was the daily barrage of e-mails and phone calls which were handled out of the public eye. Considering the time spent dealing with those communications, I would say I communicate far less now.

But it's a bit ironic what you say about voting for me. A lot of people voted against me because they thought it would shut me up.






The people who voted against you are way too smart to think that it would shut you up. The people who voted against you didn't think you were the best representative for them.
I'm still confused about what it is you want the union to do? Did you not expect the company to want to change the retirement section? We cannot control when they present their openers on retirement nor what they ask for.
It's unfortunate that you appear to be 3 of the 12 angry men all rolled into one all the time.

DLax85

Bump ..... Latest status/updates??

FLMD11CAPT

No known updates on The HK-4/5



This week, we met with the Company over 3 days. We provided our latest proposals concerning Sections 5 (Traveling Expenses) & 8 (Deadheading). We also provided our first proposal concerning the B767. The bottom line on our B767 proposal is that we must honor seniority, recognize the B767 as a wide body aircraft for purposes of pay, and engage the Company in an effort to introduce the B767 in a way that preserves the efficiencies, which seem to exist with a combined B757/B767 fleet without any concessions.

The Company provided a Section 25 (Scheduling) proposal. Most noteworthy, the proposal contained a form of Preferential Bidding, which would function system-wide. This does not come as a surprise as it was included in the Company’s 2010 Opener and has been routinely mentioned by management pilots over the past weeks and months.

The Company also provided a Section 7 (Vacation) proposal – the first Section 7 proposal by either party in the Interim Discussions. Most of the Company’s proposed changes in Section 7 related to the Preferential Bidding aspects of their Section 25 proposal.

Earlier today, we provided a detailed briefing to the MEC. In November, we have three Interim Discussions scheduled. We intend to make a full Section 11 (Training) proposal. We also anticipate further discussions concerning Section 5, 8 and the B767. Keep your block rep informed of your thoughts and opinions.

Thanks for your continuing support.

Scott, Bill, & Andrew

TonyC

Pay no attention to what I'm doing with my left hand. Pay close attention to what I'm doing with my right hand. Watch my right hand. Focus. Keep your eye on my right hand.

Anybody who knows how PBS works knows that it is antithetical to the beauty of our vacation system. The best part of PBS is that it avoids scheduling conflicts. The best part of our vacation system is our ability to create conflicts. The two are not compatible, and that's why any PBS proposal has to be accompanied by a proposal to change our vacation system. You can bet your bottom dollar that a change to our vacation system will not be for the better.

The Company knows that PBS is very unpopular among the General Population -- it's easy to incite a riot by dropping that bomb. And yet, if there was ever a group who might actually entertain the concept, they're running the show now. The Negotiating Committee described the proposal as a "form of Preferential Bidding." A FORM OF ... Later that same day, the P2P reps were told it's a "comprehensive and full blown PBS" system. In between those two comms was the Chairman's basis for capitulation.

"PBS, in any form, requires a level of trust that does not exist today. It also requires certain programming keys be given to ALPA which the Company has steadfastly refused to do."

Now all they have to do is convince you that we have achieved a higher level of trust, and the Company has agreed to give us the required keys. That will make everything OK. Besides, we're already using a PBS system to construct Secondary Lines, and the Block Reps only got a few dozen e-mails each objecting to PBS.

Brilliant distraction ... watch the right hand.


Meanwhile, back to the topic of this thread -- the Hong Kong pilots who have been terminated.

Arbitration Hearing #4 begins tomorrow, Halloween Day, and is expected to last for 2 days. After the arbitration hearing is complete, there will be a deadline for filing legal briefs, probably a month to six weeks down the road. After that, the System Board (read the "Neutral" arbitrator) has a indefinite amount of time to render a ruling.

We still have no ruling from the first two arbitrations.

The Company has hired a gunslinger from Ford Harrison (not the actor -- the Atlanta-based Labor and Employment firm -- read "professional Union Busters") to prosecute the case against Pilots 3 and 4.

Meanwhile, PC says, "Trust the system." Pilots join him at the hotel's free food and drink happy hour to discuss upcoming changes to approach callouts.

Pay no attention to what I'm doing to your brothers with my left hand. I have very exciting things here in my right hand.

Watch my right hand ...






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TonyC

Ehh, I blew that.

Arbitration Hearing #4 begins tomorrow, Halloween Eve, and is expected to conclude on Halloween Day. 30th and 31st for the holiday impaired, as I seem to have been. Sorry for the confusion.






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