TonyC

There is no syllabus for differences training between the 727-100 and -200. There is no syllabus for differences training between the DC-10-10 and -30. Three days of training are required for the MD-10 Differences, including a requirement to accomplish 3 Take-Offs and 3 Landings in the Simulator.


Why?



If I just finished my Type Rating in the MD-11 Simulator on Monday, and the MD-10 is a "Common Type", why do I have to do "3 & 3" in the MD-10 Sim on Friday?




Huck,

I believe that somewhere along the way there was some sort of honor attached to being able to use all the automation. Being able to engage the autopilot at 500' AGL (not 501 or 502, but 500!) and fly by pushbuttons from that point on was COOL! It meant we really understand all the capabilities of the jet. Other operators that didn't use PROF for the descents or Autothrottles for the landings were just less professional, or less capable, or less intelligent than us.

I don't think that mindset is as pervasive now, but it's effect still lingers. Too many people still have the impression that we should use the highest level of automation, not the "appropriate" level of automation.

Next time you're briefing the approach, end the briefing with, "And I plan to disconnect the autopilot and autothrottles at 10,000'." Make sure you're looking at the Captain's eyes when you say it.






.

Huck

Awesome - best laugh in a while!

Also make sure he's got a tray of really hot chicken satay in his hands.... or maybe just a really full cup of coffee.

fecav8r

If I'm not mistaken we came up with the stabilized approach soon after the EWR deal and since then we've had all our incidents. Any coincidence...

RedeyeAV8r

Tony do really have to ask that? Remember when the FPA was trying to fight the Common Type rating thing?

FedEx almost got the program 100% their way. If that had happend, a student would not even been required to get the 3 and 3.

FPA wasn't so much against the Common Type as it was with the FedEx training program and the scheduling. There were many at that time who thought the MD-10 should have been a separate Bid Pack(at least for the initial few years).....i.e. MD10 Domestic and MD-11 Intl.

You and I both know the Cockpits and A/C are pretty much the same........except start switches, throttle height, Thrust reverses, Flap handle and positions, Manual Pnuematic's on MD-10, APU start/stop procedures different, no tail-fuel managment MD-10, VIA's vs DEU's, no Fadec MD-10, No ice detection MD-10, Engine & performance of MD-10-10. Different Engines.a total of 4 different kinds, different limitiations and T/O & landing weights.
No auto brakes MD-10 (most of them) No carbon brakes MD-10 (except a few) NO brake Temp monitors MD-10 requiring write up on a Aborted take-off even if it was at 30 kts.........., an here's a oldie but goodie, different landing techniques. General performances with the automation, The MD-10 had a faster processor but often would not truely intercept prof decent profiles as well as MD-11 auto throttles are much better on Md-11........I know that I probably left out about another 80 or so things but other than that the aircraft are pretty much the same.......

BigWatchPilot

The common response when on defense...go to the other extreme. You asked for our opinion so try and take them with an open mind.

The corporate culture at FedEx...the "YES MAN!" I didn't see any postings for the 757 jobs that were just announced...and who is going to develop the 757 training program the same guy that developed the 3+ month MD program...with the EFB, HUD, and new aircraft I am sure we will have the LONGEST 757 training program in the history of the plane.

Moving on...the POINT of looking at the most "qualified" pilot is where we were at...having a policy that says "WE WILL NOT HIRE LAGACY PILOTS" flat out is what we disagree with...that does not mean hire all of them and close the doors to military and regional guys...have a look at the BEST guys out there and try to have a diverse work group...and if you say we do...come on a divers group of Navy squadrons, maybe.

I am putting this out there not to slam you or the way things are done but you even admit that they need to change and these are just a FEW ideas! I hope you get SOME good info out of all this.

Best of luck...

RedeyeAV8r

Tony do really have to ask that? Remember when the FPA was trying to fight the Common Type rating thing?

FedEx almost got the program 100% their way. If that had happend, a student would not even have got the 3 and 3.

FPA wasn't so much against the Common Type as it was with the FedEx training program and the scheduling. There were many at that time who thought the MD-10 should have been a separate Bid Pack(at least for the initial few years).....i.e. MD10 Domestic and MD-11 Intl.

You and I both know the Cockpits and A/C are pretty much the same........except start switches, throttle height, Thrust reverses, Flap handle and positions, Manual Pnuematic's on MD-10, APU start/stop procedures different, no tail-fuel managment MD-10, VIA's vs DEU's, no Fadec MD-10, No ice detection MD-10, Engine & performance of MD-10-10.
No auto brakes MD-10 (most of them) No carbon brakes MD-10 (except a few) NO brake Temp monitors MD-10 requiring write up on a Aborted take-off even if it was at 30 kts.........., an here's a oldie but goodie, different landing technique. General performances with the automation, The MD-10 had a faster processor but often would not truely intercept prof decent profiles as well as MD-11........I know I loeft out about another 80 things but other than that the aircraft are pretty much the same.......

130JDrvr

Other than the gear collapsing? Not that I can think of.

BigWatchPilot

There are the 2 tail strikes on landing also...

RedeyeAV8r

First I asked you if you were MGT before and you said NO, now you say you haven't seen any "UNION" folks apply to a MGT posting. How would you see these apps as a LINE Pilot ? Are you a MGT guy or NOT? If you are that is OK but it would certainly explain a few things about your opinions and Mindset.

Was there a Posting for the New 757 Training and STandards?? Maybe I missed it, yet it was recently filled.

Do either of the 2 Gentleman who got the jobs have any 757 experience?? I know at least one did not.......but he almost has the seniority to hold CAPT on it

Again this is a credibilty issue. I am sure that out of 4800 pilots here that we probably have many Pilots with extensive 757 experience, probably some with instructor and Check Airmen experience. Did any of these folks even get a look??
This is the whole point of this volley of yours and mine.

As to hiring the guys right into the left seat........you were the guy who brought that up. As far as hiring a 50 + year old, what is wrong with that especailly if has more INTL WB experience than another?


What started this whole volley back and forth was hiring right into the right seat of the MD-11 in ANC. An old FCIF I blelive it said the plan was to hire about 70 "purple Nuggets". My point with this was .(especially with our safety record) If you need 70 "direct to the MD-11 newhires" I am sure there were more qualifed Pilots that weren't even considered for the job because the are currently employed by United or Delta or whoever.

I am sure the F-18 guy we put in is a good guy and the RJ CPT we put in was a good guy as was retired Military guy that was barely current.......This Purple Nugget thing was supposed to be a stop gap measure.

The MD-11 is a complex jet flying into challenging airports. All I am am saying is (especailly with our current track record) why limit yourself to who you interview for direct entry MD-11 slots when there are extremely qualifed people out there that OUR SCP says we won't even look at because thay are curretly working for someone else......it doesn't make sense. Do we want to improve our safety record or not?

remlap

For what it's worth,

I have all the bells and whistles.
I have a college degree.
I am a former military aviator.
I have types, hours and international experience the 727, 737-800, 757/767, and the MD-11.
I am a young captain at a major passenger carrier with over 11,000 hours and 3,000 hours PIC in large airplanes.
I even have sponsors at Fed/Ex. (One of them was my F/E when I was an F/O, so I can't be a complete jerk.)

What frosts me is that the Fed/Ex HR website took my hard earned money in order to place my application in the pool. However, I can't find any notation on the application that I won't be interviewed because I have a current seniority number at a part 121 carrier. It sure does seem like a bait and switch. I have to wonder if there isn't a law suit for this, but that would probably ruin my chances for employment.

While I'm on my soapbox, the whole issue back in the mid 90's about people bailing and returning to their original carriers is just a smoke screen. The simple solution to the issue is to require a letter of resignation from the respective applicant to his previous employer to be produced on the first day of employment by Fed/Ex. That would put an end to that concern.

Carry on.

Remlap