How to improve JL's meet and greet program
11-03-2006, 07:27 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Michael Vick's favorite animal
Posts: 267
Some very interesting views and suggestions on a very noteworthy topic. My two cents, but before I do, read with an open mind...no offense intended.
1. I am in favor of flight management allocating a greater importance to the recommendation from our line Captains. If you are a Captain or LCA at this company, you should NOT HAVE to bring a candidate in for a mandatory Meet and Greet. My name and reputation should be enough, period. But, conversely if you DO bring someone in, it's just that much more important. I am not inferring that our F/O's and S/O's should be disregarded, it's just that being a Captain here should carry more weight. JL thinks so, so why not practice what we preach?
2. We shouldn't have MASS SPONSORS. I personally know a guy that has gotten 6 of his buddies hired in the last year. That's not right. You should get ONE referral a year where that candidate WILL GET AN INTERVIEW, so long as you aren't a bumbling idiot here. Credence goes to LCA/SCA's first, Line Captains Second, F/O's third...that should be the pecking order. Fedex is asking it's Capt's to "set an example for the F/O's that will be Captains soon" so they should value a Captains rec over anyone elses, again no offense to F/O's S/O's.
3. Start hiring current major airline pilots. This silly "policy" of not hiring a pilot unless he is furloghed is outrageous. I have heard that "they didn't want to work here before, now all of a sudden they do" and "we don't want to drain the pilot list over at Delta or AA cause then they wouldn't give us discounted fares" is preposterous. Who is more atune to flying 630,000lb airplanes than a CURRENT AND QUALIFIED 767, or 777 pilot at CAL, DAL, AA, UAL......? These folks are AIRLINE PILOTS doing what we do, and lots of times in jets like we have. To not hire them because of some corporate agenda is A HUGE WASTE of talent.
4. We need more diversity in our new hire classes. Have you noticed that they have stopped listing what you flew and where you flew with the new hire classes? Is that because we have started hiring 94% military (no offense, just the way it's ALWAYS been!) or because we ran out of room on the pilot website? We ALL have qualified backgrounds, but the number of newhires with a military background that I have heard say "well, I had a past squadron buddy call me from Fedex and say they are hiring, so I figured I'd put my name in the hat" is astonishing. There are qualified folks out there from all the sectors of civilian aviation that would give the proverbial left wing nut to work here, they just can't get noticed.
We should, like UPS (no hull losses), strive for balance. What's wrong with a class of 24 consisting of 6 military, 6 commuter, 6 major, and 6 corporate? Doesn't that diversity bring with it a broad experience level? We all learn from one another, and I don't mean to insult the military folks here because had I the opportunity, I would have gone that route. You can't argue with the numbers here though. The majority of this crewforce is ex-military. Heck, maybe it's because that's who is doing the recommending, I don't know.
I should not have had to FLY with somebody to recommend them. If you have known someone for a long time, developed a relationship with them, you are qualified to speak about thier character, thier past work history and absence of pink-slips speaks for thier flying ability.
My two cents......
11-03-2006, 07:28 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD-11/10 Captain
Posts: 533
The online form is a great tool for getting an app tagged. But the M&G is what gets the individual tagged. I agree that each line pilot should have the chance to do, say, one M&G a year. Or six months. That way the pilot's number one choice would have to be selected (by the pilot) and they basically become joined at the hip for that period of time. When that time period is up the pilot has the choice to run the first guy in again or move on to another candidate.
The ACP schedule issue is tough. Most of us here don't know what the typical day is like for the ACP's. Is it filled with 1%'ers and their fun yet interesting issues? Is there a lot of Solitaire and web surfing? It is purely a time management function. If the ACP's have the time, set it aside and use it for M&G's. If they don't come up with a better system for getting pilot applicants some face time.
The ACP schedule issue is tough. Most of us here don't know what the typical day is like for the ACP's. Is it filled with 1%'ers and their fun yet interesting issues? Is there a lot of Solitaire and web surfing? It is purely a time management function. If the ACP's have the time, set it aside and use it for M&G's. If they don't come up with a better system for getting pilot applicants some face time.
11-03-2006, 09:47 AM
#13
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
How about a monthly mini-job fair? Every second Tuesday a small number of ACPs host sponsors and applicants at a luncheon provided by Flight Ops. Throw in a PowerPoint presentation and a quick tour of the AOC, and maybe a brief appearance by the SCP. Wrap up the day with an informal gathering at a local watering hole.
11-03-2006, 10:32 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
The ACP schedule issue is tough. Most of us here don't know what the typical day is like for the ACP's. Is it filled with 1%'ers and their fun yet interesting issues? Is there a lot of Solitaire and web surfing? It is purely a time management function. If the ACP's have the time, set it aside and use it for M&G's. If they don't come up with a better system for getting pilot applicants some face time.
11-03-2006, 10:32 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 675
Some very interesting views and suggestions on a very noteworthy topic. My two cents, but before I do, read with an open mind...no offense intended.
1. I am in favor of flight management allocating a greater importance to the recommendation from our line Captains. If you are a Captain or LCA at this company, you should NOT HAVE to bring a candidate in for a mandatory Meet and Greet. My name and reputation should be enough, period. But, conversely if you DO bring someone in, it's just that much more important. I am not inferring that our F/O's and S/O's should be disregarded, it's just that being a Captain here should carry more weight. JL thinks so, so why not practice what we preach?
2. We shouldn't have MASS SPONSORS. I personally know a guy that has gotten 6 of his buddies hired in the last year. That's not right. You should get ONE referral a year where that candidate WILL GET AN INTERVIEW, so long as you aren't a bumbling idiot here. Credence goes to LCA/SCA's first, Line Captains Second, F/O's third...that should be the pecking order. Fedex is asking it's Capt's to "set an example for the F/O's that will be Captains soon" so they should value a Captains rec over anyone elses, again no offense to F/O's S/O's.
3. Start hiring current major airline pilots. This silly "policy" of not hiring a pilot unless he is furloghed is outrageous. I have heard that "they didn't want to work here before, now all of a sudden they do" and "we don't want to drain the pilot list over at Delta or AA cause then they wouldn't give us discounted fares" is preposterous. Who is more atune to flying 630,000lb airplanes than a CURRENT AND QUALIFIED 767, or 777 pilot at CAL, DAL, AA, UAL......? These folks are AIRLINE PILOTS doing what we do, and lots of times in jets like we have. To not hire them because of some corporate agenda is A HUGE WASTE of talent.
4. We need more diversity in our new hire classes. Have you noticed that they have stopped listing what you flew and where you flew with the new hire classes? Is that because we have started hiring 94% military (no offense, just the way it's ALWAYS been!) or because we ran out of room on the pilot website? We ALL have qualified backgrounds, but the number of newhires with a military background that I have heard say "well, I had a past squadron buddy call me from Fedex and say they are hiring, so I figured I'd put my name in the hat" is astonishing. There are qualified folks out there from all the sectors of civilian aviation that would give the proverbial left wing nut to work here, they just can't get noticed.
We should, like UPS (no hull losses), strive for balance. What's wrong with a class of 24 consisting of 6 military, 6 commuter, 6 major, and 6 corporate? Doesn't that diversity bring with it a broad experience level? We all learn from one another, and I don't mean to insult the military folks here because had I the opportunity, I would have gone that route. You can't argue with the numbers here though. The majority of this crewforce is ex-military. Heck, maybe it's because that's who is doing the recommending, I don't know.
I should not have had to FLY with somebody to recommend them. If you have known someone for a long time, developed a relationship with them, you are qualified to speak about thier character, thier past work history and absence of pink-slips speaks for thier flying ability.
My two cents......
1. I am in favor of flight management allocating a greater importance to the recommendation from our line Captains. If you are a Captain or LCA at this company, you should NOT HAVE to bring a candidate in for a mandatory Meet and Greet. My name and reputation should be enough, period. But, conversely if you DO bring someone in, it's just that much more important. I am not inferring that our F/O's and S/O's should be disregarded, it's just that being a Captain here should carry more weight. JL thinks so, so why not practice what we preach?
2. We shouldn't have MASS SPONSORS. I personally know a guy that has gotten 6 of his buddies hired in the last year. That's not right. You should get ONE referral a year where that candidate WILL GET AN INTERVIEW, so long as you aren't a bumbling idiot here. Credence goes to LCA/SCA's first, Line Captains Second, F/O's third...that should be the pecking order. Fedex is asking it's Capt's to "set an example for the F/O's that will be Captains soon" so they should value a Captains rec over anyone elses, again no offense to F/O's S/O's.
3. Start hiring current major airline pilots. This silly "policy" of not hiring a pilot unless he is furloghed is outrageous. I have heard that "they didn't want to work here before, now all of a sudden they do" and "we don't want to drain the pilot list over at Delta or AA cause then they wouldn't give us discounted fares" is preposterous. Who is more atune to flying 630,000lb airplanes than a CURRENT AND QUALIFIED 767, or 777 pilot at CAL, DAL, AA, UAL......? These folks are AIRLINE PILOTS doing what we do, and lots of times in jets like we have. To not hire them because of some corporate agenda is A HUGE WASTE of talent.
4. We need more diversity in our new hire classes. Have you noticed that they have stopped listing what you flew and where you flew with the new hire classes? Is that because we have started hiring 94% military (no offense, just the way it's ALWAYS been!) or because we ran out of room on the pilot website? We ALL have qualified backgrounds, but the number of newhires with a military background that I have heard say "well, I had a past squadron buddy call me from Fedex and say they are hiring, so I figured I'd put my name in the hat" is astonishing. There are qualified folks out there from all the sectors of civilian aviation that would give the proverbial left wing nut to work here, they just can't get noticed.
We should, like UPS (no hull losses), strive for balance. What's wrong with a class of 24 consisting of 6 military, 6 commuter, 6 major, and 6 corporate? Doesn't that diversity bring with it a broad experience level? We all learn from one another, and I don't mean to insult the military folks here because had I the opportunity, I would have gone that route. You can't argue with the numbers here though. The majority of this crewforce is ex-military. Heck, maybe it's because that's who is doing the recommending, I don't know.
I should not have had to FLY with somebody to recommend them. If you have known someone for a long time, developed a relationship with them, you are qualified to speak about thier character, thier past work history and absence of pink-slips speaks for thier flying ability.
My two cents......
1. I agree and the LCA's and Captains do have more bearing on the process. Problem is by the time you're a Captain, most of the guys you know are already hired at other airlines, or are dead. We get very few recs from Captains any more. Most come from the new hires who are coming from the Airline pilot farms, ie the military, the regionals, or corporate.
2. We don't really have mass sponsors. We have mass recs. Only can sponsor one guy at a time. When your guy gets hired/rejected, you can have another one. Problem again is most guys who came here are from places where there are large numbers of guys who want to get hired here so they have many "number 1" candidates.
3. I can see your point about hiring current airline pilots, but I just have a basic disagreement with giving a guy a second chance at a major airline career before we give the guys who have been working their asses off in the puppy mills out there their first opportunity. And why is a guy who flew right seat in the 75/76 more qualified than a guy who has been flying Captain on an RJ for the past 6 or 7 years in and out of ORD, ATL, DFW, or the guy who has been flying a C-17/C-5/ C130 in and out of the desert for the past 6 or 7 years. Because we aren't really getting the Captains at these other airlines. We're getting the FO's.
4. I think if you look at the diversity of the classes we've had, you'd be amazed at how widespread the new classes are. Don't know why they stopped putting the info on the website. I think one thing the military has going for it is the network they have set up. And I really like talking to the guys face to face. There have been a few I knew right off I didn't feel comfortable with. I do agree with you that you can tell a lot about a guy if you've lived with him, drank with him, been bailed out of jail with him( time for another post). But this is a flying job and I want to know how the guy is in an airplane. Can I fly a 7 day domestic trip with him without wanting to hide every time I see him in the lobby. Can I fly a 12 day Int'l trip with him and not want to kill him when I'm done. And I don't think you really know that until you've spent some time on the road with him.
11-03-2006, 10:36 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 675
Has anybody on this forum ever actually had their ACP answer their phone. If they did answer, was it after 1400L time? The ACP's might have lots of time available? Don't know? Few of them seem to fly very much (with the exception of SM). Regardless, the current M&G system is broken and favors the MEM bubba system. I hope they fix it.
11-03-2006, 11:34 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Triple Capt
Posts: 608
1. I agree, Capt's and LCA's rec's should carry weight but most are older and their buddies are working elsewhere.
2. No mass sponsors. One per yr should be the standard -- the "Purple People Eater Thing" mentioned earlier. You get a guy hired today, then 1 Jan 07 you can walk another guy in. Your guy bombs today, then you wait until 1 Jan 07 to bring in the next.
3. Can't agree with hiring from other airlines unless they relinquish their seniority number. I say that with reservation because I know sometimes "the way we did it at brand X" is not necessarily a bad thing and could help us here at FedEx. But I also have to agree that there are lots of guys busting their humps to get here; why not afford them that opportunity?
4. Diversity? I can't comment because I haven't seen the backgrounds that we used to have listed with the new hires. I will echo fecav8r comments -- military guys have an excellent network.
I know about 6 of my buddies toiling along still on active duty, waiting to get promoted to O6 or above, who I would drag in here in a heartbeat to get them jobs if the coveted promotion does not come through. Why? Because I have FLOWN with them, some in combat; I have been under their leadership, or they under mine, and I have socialized with them on deployments, TDY's etc.... I know these guy's character and professionalsim and IMO, having flown with a sponsoree is a MUST HAVE requirement for a recommendation.
I like the job fair idea as long as the sponsor gets to bring in one guy/gal ONLY for that year.
2. No mass sponsors. One per yr should be the standard -- the "Purple People Eater Thing" mentioned earlier. You get a guy hired today, then 1 Jan 07 you can walk another guy in. Your guy bombs today, then you wait until 1 Jan 07 to bring in the next.
3. Can't agree with hiring from other airlines unless they relinquish their seniority number. I say that with reservation because I know sometimes "the way we did it at brand X" is not necessarily a bad thing and could help us here at FedEx. But I also have to agree that there are lots of guys busting their humps to get here; why not afford them that opportunity?
4. Diversity? I can't comment because I haven't seen the backgrounds that we used to have listed with the new hires. I will echo fecav8r comments -- military guys have an excellent network.
I know about 6 of my buddies toiling along still on active duty, waiting to get promoted to O6 or above, who I would drag in here in a heartbeat to get them jobs if the coveted promotion does not come through. Why? Because I have FLOWN with them, some in combat; I have been under their leadership, or they under mine, and I have socialized with them on deployments, TDY's etc.... I know these guy's character and professionalsim and IMO, having flown with a sponsoree is a MUST HAVE requirement for a recommendation.
I like the job fair idea as long as the sponsor gets to bring in one guy/gal ONLY for that year.
11-03-2006, 02:04 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Michael Vick's favorite animal
Posts: 267
Let me take these one at a time...
1. I agree and the LCA's and Captains do have more bearing on the process. Problem is by the time you're a Captain, most of the guys you know are already hired at other airlines, or are dead. We get very few recs from Captains any more. Most come from the new hires who are coming from the Airline pilot farms, ie the military, the regionals, or corporate.
2. We don't really have mass sponsors. We have mass recs. Only can sponsor one guy at a time. When your guy gets hired/rejected, you can have another one. Problem again is most guys who came here are from places where there are large numbers of guys who want to get hired here so they have many "number 1" candidates.
3. I can see your point about hiring current airline pilots, but I just have a basic disagreement with giving a guy a second chance at a major airline career before we give the guys who have been working their asses off in the puppy mills out there their first opportunity. And why is a guy who flew right seat in the 75/76 more qualified than a guy who has been flying Captain on an RJ for the past 6 or 7 years in and out of ORD, ATL, DFW, or the guy who has been flying a C-17/C-5/ C130 in and out of the desert for the past 6 or 7 years. Because we aren't really getting the Captains at these other airlines. We're getting the FO's.
4. I think if you look at the diversity of the classes we've had, you'd be amazed at how widespread the new classes are. Don't know why they stopped putting the info on the website. I think one thing the military has going for it is the network they have set up. And I really like talking to the guys face to face. There have been a few I knew right off I didn't feel comfortable with. I do agree with you that you can tell a lot about a guy if you've lived with him, drank with him, been bailed out of jail with him( time for another post). But this is a flying job and I want to know how the guy is in an airplane. Can I fly a 7 day domestic trip with him without wanting to hide every time I see him in the lobby. Can I fly a 12 day Int'l trip with him and not want to kill him when I'm done. And I don't think you really know that until you've spent some time on the road with him.
1. I agree and the LCA's and Captains do have more bearing on the process. Problem is by the time you're a Captain, most of the guys you know are already hired at other airlines, or are dead. We get very few recs from Captains any more. Most come from the new hires who are coming from the Airline pilot farms, ie the military, the regionals, or corporate.
2. We don't really have mass sponsors. We have mass recs. Only can sponsor one guy at a time. When your guy gets hired/rejected, you can have another one. Problem again is most guys who came here are from places where there are large numbers of guys who want to get hired here so they have many "number 1" candidates.
3. I can see your point about hiring current airline pilots, but I just have a basic disagreement with giving a guy a second chance at a major airline career before we give the guys who have been working their asses off in the puppy mills out there their first opportunity. And why is a guy who flew right seat in the 75/76 more qualified than a guy who has been flying Captain on an RJ for the past 6 or 7 years in and out of ORD, ATL, DFW, or the guy who has been flying a C-17/C-5/ C130 in and out of the desert for the past 6 or 7 years. Because we aren't really getting the Captains at these other airlines. We're getting the FO's.
4. I think if you look at the diversity of the classes we've had, you'd be amazed at how widespread the new classes are. Don't know why they stopped putting the info on the website. I think one thing the military has going for it is the network they have set up. And I really like talking to the guys face to face. There have been a few I knew right off I didn't feel comfortable with. I do agree with you that you can tell a lot about a guy if you've lived with him, drank with him, been bailed out of jail with him( time for another post). But this is a flying job and I want to know how the guy is in an airplane. Can I fly a 7 day domestic trip with him without wanting to hide every time I see him in the lobby. Can I fly a 12 day Int'l trip with him and not want to kill him when I'm done. And I don't think you really know that until you've spent some time on the road with him.
As far as "if you take a look at the diversity"...I sure would like to. I wish that we began putting folks' backgrounds on the pilot website with the picture. I always found it interesting to see where they hailed from.
All in all, great points for discussion.
11-03-2006, 02:08 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Michael Vick's favorite animal
Posts: 267
1. I agree, Capt's and LCA's rec's should carry weight but most are older and their buddies are working elsewhere.
2. No mass sponsors. One per yr should be the standard -- the "Purple People Eater Thing" mentioned earlier. You get a guy hired today, then 1 Jan 07 you can walk another guy in. Your guy bombs today, then you wait until 1 Jan 07 to bring in the next.
3. Can't agree with hiring from other airlines unless they relinquish their seniority number. I say that with reservation because I know sometimes "the way we did it at brand X" is not necessarily a bad thing and could help us here at FedEx. But I also have to agree that there are lots of guys busting their humps to get here; why not afford them that opportunity?
4. Diversity? I can't comment because I haven't seen the backgrounds that we used to have listed with the new hires. I will echo fecav8r comments -- military guys have an excellent network.
I know about 6 of my buddies toiling along still on active duty, waiting to get promoted to O6 or above, who I would drag in here in a heartbeat to get them jobs if the coveted promotion does not come through. Why? Because I have FLOWN with them, some in combat; I have been under their leadership, or they under mine, and I have socialized with them on deployments, TDY's etc.... I know these guy's character and professionalsim and IMO, having flown with a sponsoree is a MUST HAVE requirement for a recommendation.
I like the job fair idea as long as the sponsor gets to bring in one guy/gal ONLY for that year.
2. No mass sponsors. One per yr should be the standard -- the "Purple People Eater Thing" mentioned earlier. You get a guy hired today, then 1 Jan 07 you can walk another guy in. Your guy bombs today, then you wait until 1 Jan 07 to bring in the next.
3. Can't agree with hiring from other airlines unless they relinquish their seniority number. I say that with reservation because I know sometimes "the way we did it at brand X" is not necessarily a bad thing and could help us here at FedEx. But I also have to agree that there are lots of guys busting their humps to get here; why not afford them that opportunity?
4. Diversity? I can't comment because I haven't seen the backgrounds that we used to have listed with the new hires. I will echo fecav8r comments -- military guys have an excellent network.
I know about 6 of my buddies toiling along still on active duty, waiting to get promoted to O6 or above, who I would drag in here in a heartbeat to get them jobs if the coveted promotion does not come through. Why? Because I have FLOWN with them, some in combat; I have been under their leadership, or they under mine, and I have socialized with them on deployments, TDY's etc.... I know these guy's character and professionalsim and IMO, having flown with a sponsoree is a MUST HAVE requirement for a recommendation.
I like the job fair idea as long as the sponsor gets to bring in one guy/gal ONLY for that year.
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