New Airplanes for ATI? (Re-post)
07-10-2012, 04:31 AM
#53
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 597
There is one valid point out of all of this......
I'll buy 757niteflyer on the DoD 757 experience being required. Just because the 757C program was in the works long before this merger doesn't mean anything. The DoD could have simply added this requirement in the last year (similar to why National supposedly has a few 757 Combis sitting around ready to fly yet waiting "government approval" which could be why they've been flying a 757 pax plane out of Dubai for the last 10 months). Who knows? However, I really think this is the case! Especially since ATI has to do a brand new ETOPS program for the 757 even though they have loads on experience with 767s (both freighter and with N712AX).
This is just my view on the entire ATI/CCIA/ATSG as a whole......
While there is some viable business out there, none of the companies really have their sh*t together. It was painfully obvious as an employee and its obvious now. If they want to be a serious business, get the correct people involved to help make it work. If they want to be a hack, keep on going the way it is.
I'll buy 757niteflyer on the DoD 757 experience being required. Just because the 757C program was in the works long before this merger doesn't mean anything. The DoD could have simply added this requirement in the last year (similar to why National supposedly has a few 757 Combis sitting around ready to fly yet waiting "government approval" which could be why they've been flying a 757 pax plane out of Dubai for the last 10 months). Who knows? However, I really think this is the case! Especially since ATI has to do a brand new ETOPS program for the 757 even though they have loads on experience with 767s (both freighter and with N712AX).
This is just my view on the entire ATI/CCIA/ATSG as a whole......
While there is some viable business out there, none of the companies really have their sh*t together. It was painfully obvious as an employee and its obvious now. If they want to be a serious business, get the correct people involved to help make it work. If they want to be a hack, keep on going the way it is.
07-10-2012, 09:37 AM
#54
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Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 92
I apologize, I provided very incorrect info, I was just informed that ATI IS NOT bleeding 1.7 mil a quarter. In fact they are bleeding 2 mil a month.
And just for the record you don't have to buy anything I'm saying, all the info I posted is what's coming from both MECs and management
And just for the record you don't have to buy anything I'm saying, all the info I posted is what's coming from both MECs and management
07-10-2012, 01:39 PM
#55
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 597
For whatever its worth, I got an update today of the fleet outlook by October.
4 757s flying out of CVG (can easily assume these are CCIA planes going from the CCI callsign to the ATN callsign).
2 757s flying for DHL Europe
1 757C
Long term, three more 757Cs will be on property by the end of Q1 2013. Wonder where the two other 757s are going to come from now that UAL is not going to dump the 5 L-UAL/54XX 757s at the end of 2012 like originally planned.
4 757s flying out of CVG (can easily assume these are CCIA planes going from the CCI callsign to the ATN callsign).
2 757s flying for DHL Europe
1 757C
Long term, three more 757Cs will be on property by the end of Q1 2013. Wonder where the two other 757s are going to come from now that UAL is not going to dump the 5 L-UAL/54XX 757s at the end of 2012 like originally planned.
07-10-2012, 02:43 PM
#56
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 216
I’ve watched this thread since the beginning and have withheld several times from commenting since generally speaking…I don’t care! But, the continued level of bad information and speculation by those who simply believe every single piece of anything that is put in front of them is unbelievable.
FWIW, I can tell you factually, without doubt, direct information from 2 separate sources (one being the top of management, the other a direct military source 2-star AMC). The bid for the AMC combi-contract does allow credit for previous B767 experience, both pax and cargo. You are NOT required to have previous operational B757 operational experience, but the bidding airline(s) will receive a lower point value without it. So, in short ATI has always been a contender in the bidding process without the added experience that CCI will bring to the table. The ATI bid will/would receive a higher point value with the CCI experience and, depending on other successful bidder and the total evaluation of their submission; this could make a difference in the award(s) of each contract.
The loss of monthly dollars is correct and incorrect all at the same time. At a given point in time, those were accurate numbers (rounded) in monthly losses. Although thru attrition, crewmember transition, employee retraining and realized gains company restructuring, that number is significantly lower today. Monthly losses will continue to reduce as both carriers continue thru the merger process.
If you have questions or concerns about the validity of this information, I’d suggest you contact the upper management of ATI and ATSG for corroboration. Generally speaking they (no names mentioned) are approachable and if you know them on a professional level you too can find out a certain level of their version of the truth.
FWIW, I can tell you factually, without doubt, direct information from 2 separate sources (one being the top of management, the other a direct military source 2-star AMC). The bid for the AMC combi-contract does allow credit for previous B767 experience, both pax and cargo. You are NOT required to have previous operational B757 operational experience, but the bidding airline(s) will receive a lower point value without it. So, in short ATI has always been a contender in the bidding process without the added experience that CCI will bring to the table. The ATI bid will/would receive a higher point value with the CCI experience and, depending on other successful bidder and the total evaluation of their submission; this could make a difference in the award(s) of each contract.
The loss of monthly dollars is correct and incorrect all at the same time. At a given point in time, those were accurate numbers (rounded) in monthly losses. Although thru attrition, crewmember transition, employee retraining and realized gains company restructuring, that number is significantly lower today. Monthly losses will continue to reduce as both carriers continue thru the merger process.
If you have questions or concerns about the validity of this information, I’d suggest you contact the upper management of ATI and ATSG for corroboration. Generally speaking they (no names mentioned) are approachable and if you know them on a professional level you too can find out a certain level of their version of the truth.
07-10-2012, 03:01 PM
#57
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 597
FWIW, I can tell you factually, without doubt, direct information from 2 separate sources (one being the top of management, the other a direct military source 2-star AMC). The bid for the AMC combi-contract does allow credit for previous B767 experience, both pax and cargo. You are NOT required to have previous operational B757 operational experience, but the bidding airline(s) will receive a lower point value without it. So, in short ATI has always been a contender in the bidding process without the added experience that CCI will bring to the table. The ATI bid will/would receive a higher point value with the CCI experience and, depending on other successful bidder and the total evaluation of their submission; this could make a difference in the award(s) of each contract.
Ties it all together.
07-10-2012, 10:28 PM
#59
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Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 48
Personally I don't think the rise and fall had anything to do with ATSG as a company. Last thursday and Friday the whole market rallied and now Tuesday it all went down so naturally every little stock gets dragged around with it but if you look at every quarter for the last year this happens every time.
07-11-2012, 06:48 AM
#60
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,872
The subsidiary / merger ideas began this year, after they discovered the DOD wouldn't accept the experience on the 76 counting towards the 75. Their was no merger talks after BAX had closed its doors.
JV and JH are concentrating on getting ATI back on its feet. The airline is a mess far more than what you think.
I'm just tired of listening to ATI Pilots saying capital has nothing to offer, when the deal is really about job security for the ATI pilots and suvival of ATI, that's what CCIA has to offer. If they wanted to shut CCIA down Hete had more than enough reason to.
Is this a good deal for CCIA, ABSOLUTLY !!! Nobody is saying its not. Does CCIA need ATI to survive no it doesn't. Does ATI need CCIA, Im sorry but the answer is yes. You can live in denial or carry some kind of pride flag, but if this merger fails one airline is going away, and ATI is bleeding a lot of money.
If you think this is fun just wait till your around the ABX nazis and they tell you, you shouldn't be flying their airplanes and that we should be one seniority list, of course ATI/CCIA stapled to the bottom. That happens constantly.
JV and JH are concentrating on getting ATI back on its feet. The airline is a mess far more than what you think.
I'm just tired of listening to ATI Pilots saying capital has nothing to offer, when the deal is really about job security for the ATI pilots and suvival of ATI, that's what CCIA has to offer. If they wanted to shut CCIA down Hete had more than enough reason to.
Is this a good deal for CCIA, ABSOLUTLY !!! Nobody is saying its not. Does CCIA need ATI to survive no it doesn't. Does ATI need CCIA, Im sorry but the answer is yes. You can live in denial or carry some kind of pride flag, but if this merger fails one airline is going away, and ATI is bleeding a lot of money.
If you think this is fun just wait till your around the ABX nazis and they tell you, you shouldn't be flying their airplanes and that we should be one seniority list, of course ATI/CCIA stapled to the bottom. That happens constantly.
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