UPS A Great American Company
06-05-2012, 06:33 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 141
OMFG, are you really quoting Thrush? News flash: he's a liar. Remember the "we have the cards" email?
You can not realize the cost savings proposed by 298 of the 300 most junior pilots signing up for time off at the same time, so we were never anywhere close to what Thrush stated. They thought they could save more by furloughing--nothing more, nothing less. No conspiracies just a sequence of detrimental events. Age 65, retirement of 727/747/DC-8s, and worst economic downturn in 60 years. If any of those events do not happen then no furlough IMHO. Blame UPS management for hiring management pilots during a furlough and for tons of other things, but they did not systematically scheme to screw 109 pilots.
You can not realize the cost savings proposed by 298 of the 300 most junior pilots signing up for time off at the same time, so we were never anywhere close to what Thrush stated. They thought they could save more by furloughing--nothing more, nothing less. No conspiracies just a sequence of detrimental events. Age 65, retirement of 727/747/DC-8s, and worst economic downturn in 60 years. If any of those events do not happen then no furlough IMHO. Blame UPS management for hiring management pilots during a furlough and for tons of other things, but they did not systematically scheme to screw 109 pilots.
06-05-2012, 06:35 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 141
If you really think the voluntary time off option presented by the IPA was "a more profitable option" you are too emotional.
298 of 300 ANC FOs signing up for the same time off was unattainable. We were never close to $100 million in savings. It was a simple business decision. The only mistake was they waited too long to start it. While the open time ban saved some furloughs the delay in implementing it probably saved more. My God man, we had 150 DC-8 pilots sitting at home making $120k/yr and $240k/yr for FO and Capt respectively for over a year.
298 of 300 ANC FOs signing up for the same time off was unattainable. We were never close to $100 million in savings. It was a simple business decision. The only mistake was they waited too long to start it. While the open time ban saved some furloughs the delay in implementing it probably saved more. My God man, we had 150 DC-8 pilots sitting at home making $120k/yr and $240k/yr for FO and Capt respectively for over a year.
06-05-2012, 09:10 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 653
Haha. Chevy. Man I've heard that all my life oh well it makes me happy!
StayorGo. Yes the card count was tragic. Thrush and the Ipa later corrected that mistake. The $131 million was not Thrush's counting but the EB 's statement.
I think the current offical Ipa position of Thrush's quote concerning the dollar amount is that it is still accurate
Of course I have no inside information just what the Ipa and ups posted
StayorGo. Yes the card count was tragic. Thrush and the Ipa later corrected that mistake. The $131 million was not Thrush's counting but the EB 's statement.
I think the current offical Ipa position of Thrush's quote concerning the dollar amount is that it is still accurate
Of course I have no inside information just what the Ipa and ups posted
06-05-2012, 12:01 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: B-747-400 FO
Posts: 354
the company furloughed 109 pilots, and what, 5,000 drivers?? Some guys forget that there was a lot of pain throughout the company. We were fat, that's a fact. We might still be fat on some fleets. The furlough was a tragedy for those 109 families, but UPS cut throughout the company, they weren't just picking on pilots, but you'd think that was the case..
06-05-2012, 02:29 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Context is Everything.
the company furloughed 109 pilots, and what, 5,000 drivers?? Some guys forget that there was a lot of pain throughout the company. We were fat, that's a fact. We might still be fat on some fleets. The furlough was a tragedy for those 109 families, but UPS cut throughout the company, they weren't just picking on pilots, but you'd think that was the case..
06-05-2012, 03:11 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 218
06-05-2012, 03:51 PM
#29
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
from the IPA flight times dated 2/08/2010
"The membership stepped up and voluntarily provided cost savings of $136 million"
This quote from the IPA President would seem to counter your statement. Do you have a reference for you less then $100 million number?
From the Atlanta Business News 2/08/2010
"Thrush said. He said the company increased its target for cost savings to $244 million from $131 million. "We said, ‘Whoa, wait a minute, we can get to the cost savings that you wanted, but now you want more and longer?' " according to Thrush. He said the company also wants contract concessions.
IMO in this game of negotiations UPS tried to make a large land grab. UPS said "at least 300 pilots to 2015" to be furloughed and when the IPA got very close to the first round of requested payroll reductions they thought there was a possibility for more hence the increase from $131 from $244 million.
"The membership stepped up and voluntarily provided cost savings of $136 million"
This quote from the IPA President would seem to counter your statement. Do you have a reference for you less then $100 million number?
From the Atlanta Business News 2/08/2010
"Thrush said. He said the company increased its target for cost savings to $244 million from $131 million. "We said, ‘Whoa, wait a minute, we can get to the cost savings that you wanted, but now you want more and longer?' " according to Thrush. He said the company also wants contract concessions.
IMO in this game of negotiations UPS tried to make a large land grab. UPS said "at least 300 pilots to 2015" to be furloughed and when the IPA got very close to the first round of requested payroll reductions they thought there was a possibility for more hence the increase from $131 from $244 million.
300 pilots @ 150k= 45 million and as I'm sure you can understand 100 pilots @150k= 15 million. This is on an annual basis of course.
Most of us can easily accept and forgive a simple error in arithmetic, such as in the counting of a small number of letters, it is failures of integrity that do permanent damage.
Last edited by jungle; 06-05-2012 at 04:20 PM.
06-05-2012, 04:34 PM
#30
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: On Food Stamps
Posts: 937
Could you explain how each of those numbers were arrived at, and exactly what was involved?
300 pilots @ 150k= 45 million and as I'm sure you can understand 100 pilots @150k= 15 million. This is on an annual basis of course.
Pay attention now Shaggy, this is what is known as a credibility check.
Most of us can easily accept and forgive a simple error in arithmetic, such as in the counting of a small number of letters, it is failures of integrity that do permanent damage.
300 pilots @ 150k= 45 million and as I'm sure you can understand 100 pilots @150k= 15 million. This is on an annual basis of course.
Pay attention now Shaggy, this is what is known as a credibility check.
Most of us can easily accept and forgive a simple error in arithmetic, such as in the counting of a small number of letters, it is failures of integrity that do permanent damage.
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