Jetjok

Seems to me that this "discussion" has run its course, and that your remark could be considered "piling on." This particular captain has obviously learned a lesson that should last him for the rest of his career, and along the way, guys here, regardless of what they feel about "Captain's Authority", or where it came from, have seen and heard from their brothers as to individual feelings about it. That said, the one thing that I really still don't understand, is how someone could have become a wide-body captain here, without learning the importance of the company jumpseat, as it relates to us all.

JJ

FlyByNite

You bid Hong Kong and choose to commute right? While I don't agree with the guy who denied one of our own pilots the jumpseat. It is his cockpit. Period, end of story. As a ousted former MEC member, you above all of us should be defending the Captain's rights. Or is it only the Captain's decision when you don't need to get to a music recital?

Unknown Rider

Nobody questioned the Captain's right, just his judgement. A Captain gets to make many decisions. Some decisions he has to answer for to the FAA or management, others his peers.

LivingInMEM

Every commuter chose to commute, right? Nearly every jumpseater chose to put himself in the position to need to jumpseat that day/night, right? What's your point? Are you insinuating that HKG commuters should be penalized over MEM commuters, because it sure sounds that way. Luckily, many of our Capt's support the privilege that our industry allows of commuting even when they themselves don't commute. Imagine if more of our Capt's said "you chose to commute, right?"

The only people talking about Capt authority are those trying to defend the indefensible. The Capt has the authority to do lot of things, it doesn't mean it's correct or that his individual decision should be defended when he makes the wrong decision (especially when it's for reasons that the majority of his peers find lacking). Socially accepted behavior is guided more by norms than by authority.

AFW_MD11

Hey - just a thought - but is it possible that the FDX guy requesting the jumpseat might have been on "The List"? or in "The Book"? or a non-member? or a guy who has denied others the jumpseat in the past?

Answer - yes. It is possible (not likely in this case, but possible) - talk about bad form - a guy on one of those lists having the audacity to even ask for a jumpseat (hint - happens all the time at FDX)

Don't we still have pilots at FDX that are on "The List"? non-members? etc....

(I'm not saying this HKG pilot is on any of these lists, most likely not - my comments are just "in general" here at FedEx)

It has been my experience since I've been here that not too many of our pilots even bother to check any of these lists - or care whether the other pilot is "on the team" or not.

Might help our unity if more people cared enough to check & hold folks accountable for THEIR choices/actions.

Funny how long this thread is and no one has even mentioned this as a possible reason to have been denied the jumpseat.

TonyC

You didn't read the whole thread, did you?

Let me show you a couple of things here. When I quote a portion of someone's post and then post my remarks, it's because I'm commenting on those quoted remarks. Like right now, I'm commenting on your post which I've quoted above.

Now, when I posted a remark in repsonse to nitefly84's post, I chose to comment only on the last sentence of his post. Here's what I did:

See, I only commented on the "just pick another day" attitude. When have you ever asked for a jumpseat from anybody on any airline to go from anywhere to anywhere and been told, "just pick another day"? I was explaining a few reasons why just picking another day is a big hassle for anyone who spends a good portion of their working lives away from home. Well, to be honest, that wasn't the only thing I commented on -- I took a jab at his catering complaint, too.

I did not in any way challenge the Captain's authority to deny a jumpseat.

In fact, my first post in this thread staunchly defends that authority.



I'm not quite sure why you think I "above all of us should be defending the Captain's rights", but I hope it made you feel good to remind us that I am "a [sic] ousted former MEC member." I would hope that we would all be equally defending the Captain's authority.


I also don't understand why my status as a Hong Kong commuter is relevant. Every pilot in every status should support the Captain's authority, even if they bid Hong Kong and choose to commute. Judging by the 1st Practice Bid on the current vacancy posting, there are about 25 folks who bid Hong Kong for the same reason I did -- for the FEPP -- who are about to get the opportunity to experience the same thing. One of them can be thankful to me for delaying that opportunity for the past year.


Anyway, we agree. It's the Captain's decision.





.

Adlerdriver

This thread was about this particular situation and it didn't involve scabs or non-members. It was a perceived over-crowding issue. So, there was no reason to mention those possibilities for jumpseat denial. You're talking generalities now, the thread has been pretty specific to this case.

If the jumpseat had been denied because the pilot was a scab or non-member, I doubt the issue would have been posted on APC. The freeloader probably would have quietly slunk back under his rock, very surprised that someone here finally forced him to pay a little for his life choices.

To you point, though, which is a good one. We at Fedex don't do a very good job of checking those lists and holding certain pilot accountable. I'd be curious to see what kind of fall-out would result if a pilot was denied a domestic jumpseat (not in the cockpit) because he was a scab or non-member.

Busboy

"Captain's Authority" only gives a Captain the discretion to make the final decision.

In a perfect world, it would also give him the wisdom not to abuse it.

TonyC

Possible, yes, but in this case, no. The individual denied is not on either list.


We have people on both lists. Oddly, many "Members in Good Standing" are on the other list.


Sad, but true.


I'm afraid that word has been so misused, abused, and overused that few people understand what it even means anymore.






.

TonyC

Hear Hear!







.