JetJocF14

Once when I was as Maddog captain going from Memphis to Anchorage I had 5 jumpseaters. 3 in the cocpit and two in the back. In my reply letters I always say all I ask is a cup of coffee during preflight. Cream, no sugar. Talk about being juiced up and having to pee like a race hourse with 5 cups of joe during preflight, but everybody got to work. All are welcome without question. Still cream, no sugar. See you on the 777 or as I like to call it, the slot machine, because not all of us are tools.

Biggie

Not trying to pick on you 4A2B; but, this comment and some others kind of indicated to me, that some of you think of this as your private website.

There is much history behind jumpseating and Captains authority. Don't feel free to "nitpick" the following; as it is what I learned when I worked at TWA. While some of the points may be inaccurate (regarding who really did it); the main point is, FedEx didn't start jumpseating!

It wasn't FedEx that started ALPA. It wasn't FedEx that negotiated the use of the jumpseat, for the benefit of the individuals carriers "pilots" to utilize; based on availability. It wasn't FedEx that "unilaterally" offered jumpseats to their competitors; that led to reciprocal jumpseat agreements. With American Airlines and Delta holding out; it wasn't FedEx, that again unilaterally offered the jumpseat, in order to get AA/Delta onboard. It wasn't FedEx captains that used their Captains authority to "ask" the lead flight attendant, if first class seats were available, if the JS'er could sit there and would they take care of them.

Being a new hire pilot at TWA in 1994; I was making roughly $17,000 a year, working 21 days a month. Commuting to Anchorage on FedEx (to include the Flying Tigers 747s)/Alaska/Northwest cargo to fly at my National Guard unit and get clean clothes; was the primary cause of me not defaulting on my financial obligations. I never complained when the Alaska Captain informed me I'd have to sit in the JS from SEA - ANC (with empty seats in the back). I just thanked them (I guess because I learned how to sleep totally vertical, on an 18" B737/MD80 jumpseat). I thanked the Northwest cargo FO, who showed me how to pull the cushions off the "coach seats" in the B747 upper deck and make a narrow bed out of them; so, I could sleep on the floor on my way to ANC, to work my second job. I thanked the pilots who shared their crew meals with me sitting there at their elbows. I thanked the regional pilots that got unlimited JSs put into their contracts based on empty seats in the back. I thanked the flight attendants (TWA and USAir, primarily) who upgraded my seat to first class, gave me free food, bottled water, etc.

Having said that, I had many bad experiences, also. The TWA captains who'd bump me off the JS, not offer to take a pass (better chance for them getting on, based on their seniority) and not having the decency to tell me they'd bumped me; so, I wouldn't have to scramble at the last minute to UAL/AA to get to work. The UAL who checked his SCAB list/book to see if I was in it (35 yo at the time, I wasn't even old enough to be a scab!). The other UAL who told 2 of us OAL JSers, that we should live where we worked and "ordered" us into the back of the airplane. Or best of all, having made it to PHX on AW (going to DEN, to see my family for Christmas) and being told (Captains authority!), I couldn't have the JS.

So, before you (and the others that posted similar comments, regarding "we fought...") sanctimoniously post these comments, remember a few things. It is FedEx that has (had?, I'm not sure how your current contract works) a great contract with corporate travel; but, whose pilots still occasionally utilize OAL jumpseats. Remember, it was other, older pilots that "fought" (i.e. negotiated) for this benefit. My guess is that many of them, would look at your comments as fairly childish. But, then again; they earned these things by unity and thinking of others!

While one could argue that we all have choices; that's a very simple statement, regarding a complex situation. Again, I don't know your current contract, how many pilots are junior assigned to HKG .... blah, blah. You rationalize these issues and your no better than the APA pilots that stapled TWA (I wasn't going to bring that up; but, it is the perfect seque, that I removed earlier in my post!) - oops, and what you guys did try that with the ALPA Flying Tigers pilots (who brought ALPA onto FedEX property).

I guess it really has to due with unity (kind of a BS word, having come from a military background). You all have had your issues, as does USAir/AW, AA/TWA, etc. This industry keeps taking steps backwards. Personally, I attribute it to mentalities/ rationalizations like yours.

While it may appear to you to be some complex issue (i.e. "Captains Authority"); it's actually very simple. Treat others like you'd like to be treated!

Biggie

diesel 8

It amazing how myopic some posts are. The issue here is not captains authority but really common courtesy. The supposed reasons that were given in earlier posts for said captain denying the jumpseat are purely selfish in my opinion.

What's really missing in this discussion is the word courtesy. As a captain, when you give out a jumpseat, you are extending a courtesy to that crew member. Equally, said crew member should be courteous in his use of the jumpseat. There is an aspect of sacrifice involved. I know it's not comfortable to have a full boat of jumpseaters but really, go explore other options because I don't like some one in the seat next to me sleeping? Really?

Years ago, I jumpseated on Pan Am on what I consider to this day the most professional captain I ever jumpseated with. This guy rolled out the red carpet for me to the point I felt guilty. He even apologized to me for having to sit up front since it was a full flight. The whole crew sacrificed their comfort and went above and beyond to get me to my destination that day. They were glad to do it.

Unfortunately, courtesy and sacrifice are words lost to some here at FedEx.

Adlerdriver

Biggie,
You sound too old and crusty to be a TWA new hire in 1994 making 17-Grand, are you sure about that date? You also forgot the part about you walking to school, up hill, both ways and LIKING it.

Unfortunately, you misinterpreted 4A2b's comment and took us on a pretty big tangent. Not necessarily a bad thing to be reminded of the jumpseat fight history but not really germane to our current issue. I can assure you that no one at Fedex thinks we "started jumpseating".

I don't agree with 4A2b's stance on this but in his defense, I don't think he was referring to the ALPA jumpseat/Captain's authority fight over the years and his comment wasn't "sanctimonious".

I'm pretty sure he was referring to an internal battle ONLY within Fedex between our pilots and management over who ultimately controlled access to the cockpit jumpseats. There was a time when non-pilot employees could ride the jumpseat as well as the passenger seats in the back. They were assigned a seat and often bumped commuting pilots all without the knowledge or input from the ship's Captain. We have a 1500 sq ft js lounge in MEM staffed with 2-3 receptionists who make js reservations, hand out boarding cards and control initial access to our jumpseats. It took a while to break down that "empire" and get them to even acknowledge that our Captain's had an input at all. It still can be a struggle depending on who's working.

That's the fight he was referring to.

FDXLAG

Although Biggie's larger message of Jumpseating is an earned benefit that pilots have fought for over the years in order to make life a little easier on their brethren should not be dismissed. It part of the Pilot code which some of us think are more like guidelines.

FedElta

Cloud,

I'm really glad you got out of the pool after swimming for so long. Your posts are well thought out and reasonable. This particular Captain in question could re-learn a thing or two from some of the newer folks on board who choose not to pull up the rope.

Regards,
BG

4A2B

thanks Adler, I was referring to the internal and external. When I used the word "We" on this site I do mean we, as in all pilots, not just FedEx. I know some like biggie, take umbrage with the large amount of activity that is generated about FDX centric items. I think those that participate on these boards support all threads, FDX or not, but the fact is that there are many Purple Pilots on this forum.

As to my "stance" on this issue, it has nothing to do with the decision of this Captain and more to do with being very cautious with throwing people under the bus without all the info. If this CA's only reason to deny is because he needs his personal space then I agree that is something he needs to get over and take the riders. I only opined that there are valid reasons (not many) that a CA would deny a fellow pilot a ride and not having enough personal space on a jet that affords the resting pilots a bunk is unsat.

In the end, I hope that people will use the proper channels to handle these issues and that starts with those actually involved IMHO. We have an excellent jumpseat Chair and Pro Stan, THAT should be the first level of "peer pressure" applied. It looks amateurish and childish to post things that relate this to a scab like activity or "blanket" parties. Like I said earlier, I take every person every time (to date). If the stars aligned and a person on my naughty list actually needed a ride on my flight, I would probably still take them.

Happy trails all.

HKFlyr

Biggie,

I'm with you 100% on what you stated, however, if I may, I'm guessing the guys on this thread that are talking about "fighting for PIC authority" goes back to the fight the Fedex pilots had with management, after 9/11. We had four Captains fired for not taking cockpit jumpseaters. (actually 5, but the one was only on the beach for a few days due a agreement between the pilots and management)

Our pilot group had a major fight for PIC authority that even ended up with a ruling in a federal court regarding FAR 121.547 and 121.583. It ended up with a matrix and a few other brain numbing interpretations, but it was a fight specific to Fedex...it ended up in the pilots favor....

And again, ALPA did fight those other fights, and there was a lot of blood shed by those that went before us. I always try to remind people that ALPA was formed because the founders, the original airmail guys had a 50% death rate, and the US Postal Service didn't seem to care about weather, maintenance...a guy would not fly, he was canned...

And I think the word SCAB is left for those that sell out their brothers by crossing a picket line...I prefer to think of those few 777 prima donnas...and I personally think it is just a few, I think the word D@#$Bag comes to mind. Behavior modification through peer pressure is an amazing thing. Rumor has it said Capt. wrote the denied pilot and apologized...

I'm 100% for PIC authority...however, as some of these few Captains will find out, you can build a thousand bridges and never be known as a bridge builder, but you can S#$% on C&*( and forever be known as a C$%^S&*(r...no offense to my F15 brethern...lol

Never leave a brother behind. I was put in a SWA FA jumpseat years ago, so I could make to my fathers funeral. Those guys bent over backwards...and I didn't ask questions, I said very humbly "thank you" and I hope some day I can return the favor. Karma works both ways as they say...good and bad.

Glad we had this little chat.

Whale Driver

"Karma"

It usually takes care of these type of things.

Especially, if the FedEx pilot group insures it.

Just a thought.

Sliceback

Biggie,

Anyone old enough to get hired in 1994 probably was old enough to scab.

Don't fault the UAL pilot for checking -

Continental 1983
Pan Am 1985
United 1985
Eastern 1989
AFAP 1989