Another denied 777 Jumpseat
07-02-2013, 11:12 AM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Couch Potato
Posts: 470
I guess we'll just agree to disagree. To me, riding a j/s is a privilege granted by the captain of the flight. It's not a 'right' than any of us has. If the captain chooses to not take someone, it's a done deal and we go to plan B. Certainly I'd rather not see it happen to me, to you, or anyone else. But my point is that it's his call to make and I think for us to second guess him and drag him over the coals, is wrong. You operate your cockpit the way you choose and let others do as they see fit. But that's just my opinion and I respect that others feel differently.
MG2
MG2
07-02-2013, 12:52 PM
#134
Part Time Employee
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
Posts: 1,918
On the MD, even though it could make the flight a little uncomfortable, I never considered bumping any authorized jumpseaters from a flight. As long as there was an open seat - you had a ride. And, yes that included every seat being filled on numerous occasions to or from Asia.
I also understand that it is the "captains" decision and we fought hard to ensure we did not lose that. What I don't understand is why you wouldn't help out a fellow crew member trying to get to or from work. Oh wait, I forgot, we are living in the "it's all about me" age.
07-02-2013, 01:00 PM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,989
First, the chances that having more than one jumper on a very long international flight are very small, so odds are it's only going to happen on a small percentage of any Captain's annual flights (if at all). If you lose the j/s lottery and you have a few on your MEM-DXB flight, then you suck it up. It's only 14 hours out of your life and they're not going to be "spooning" you in the bunk.
I've flown 12 hours with 2 jumpers and a three-man crew (futon only) and 10+ hours with a jumper, 3-man crew and an LCA giving us a line check on a rigid barrier MD-11. Both times we never considered denying the j/s and we definitely had less room to maneuver than the back of the 777.
Yes, the jumpseat is a privilege. The Captain's choice to deny it should be for a better reason than reducing his or his crew's person hassle level. I'll question his decision all day and he should be raked over the coals if that's what happened. As someone else said, you don't see this sort of culture flaw at other airlines. We're all on the same team and should be willing to accept some minor inconvenience to help each other out.
07-02-2013, 02:12 PM
#137
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Tool-Box, old man
Posts: 2,204
07-02-2013, 02:15 PM
#138
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Tool-Box, old man
Posts: 2,204
MacGuy,
I absolutely agree.....this is 100% the Captains decision. It should remain that way, no question about it.
The bigger problem is that one pilot (or group of pilots) was not willing to be inconvenienced to help a fellow pilot out. I can't count the number of cross country trips I have made on Pax carriers as the 4th jumpseater in a 737 cockpit......and I was never turned down. The flying pilots may not have enjoyed having all that company but they sucked it up and did it to help a fellow pilot. Where is that Esprit de Corps here? Management is aiming for a new paradigm...."Just Culture". Perhaps we need to aim for a new paradigm ourselves....
I absolutely agree.....this is 100% the Captains decision. It should remain that way, no question about it.
The bigger problem is that one pilot (or group of pilots) was not willing to be inconvenienced to help a fellow pilot out. I can't count the number of cross country trips I have made on Pax carriers as the 4th jumpseater in a 737 cockpit......and I was never turned down. The flying pilots may not have enjoyed having all that company but they sucked it up and did it to help a fellow pilot. Where is that Esprit de Corps here? Management is aiming for a new paradigm...."Just Culture". Perhaps we need to aim for a new paradigm ourselves....
fbh
07-02-2013, 02:26 PM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,237
What's that got to do with choosing to hose other FedEx pilots in the name of personal convenience. Are you saying we might actually agree with the choice to deny a j/s if we flew a 14 hour flight with a full house? No way.
First, the chances that having more than one jumper on a very long international flight are very small, so odds are it's only going to happen on a small percentage of any Captain's annual flights (if at all). If you lose the j/s lottery and you have a few on your MEM-DXB flight, then you suck it up. It's only 14 hours out of your life and they're not going to be "spooning" you in the bunk.
I've flown 12 hours with 2 jumpers and a three-man crew (futon only) and 10+ hours with a jumper, 3-man crew and an LCA giving us a line check on a rigid barrier MD-11. Both times we never considered denying the j/s and we definitely had less room to maneuver than the back of the 777.
Yes, the jumpseat is a privilege. The Captain's choice to deny it should be for a better reason than reducing his or his crew's person hassle level. I'll question his decision all day and he should be raked over the coals if that's what happened. As someone else said, you don't see this sort of culture flaw at other airlines. We're all on the same team and should be willing to accept some minor inconvenience to help each other out.
First, the chances that having more than one jumper on a very long international flight are very small, so odds are it's only going to happen on a small percentage of any Captain's annual flights (if at all). If you lose the j/s lottery and you have a few on your MEM-DXB flight, then you suck it up. It's only 14 hours out of your life and they're not going to be "spooning" you in the bunk.
I've flown 12 hours with 2 jumpers and a three-man crew (futon only) and 10+ hours with a jumper, 3-man crew and an LCA giving us a line check on a rigid barrier MD-11. Both times we never considered denying the j/s and we definitely had less room to maneuver than the back of the 777.
Yes, the jumpseat is a privilege. The Captain's choice to deny it should be for a better reason than reducing his or his crew's person hassle level. I'll question his decision all day and he should be raked over the coals if that's what happened. As someone else said, you don't see this sort of culture flaw at other airlines. We're all on the same team and should be willing to accept some minor inconvenience to help each other out.
Yes way.
You think every captain that made this decision is just a flaming you-know-what? You think none of them came to the reasoned decision using their experience and best judgment?
I just love the MD11 (and even 737) stories. I flew the MD11 for 7 years at two companies. This thing is in another league. You don't believe me, fine. Carry on.
Oh and I've been bumped off an MD11 jumpseat - it was a sleeper and they were doing a line check, and the captain didn't want any witnesses.
I've also been denied the Delta jumpseat because the guy was a dick that didn't like the carrier I was flying for at the time.
I wonder sometimes what color the sky is in y'all's world. A jumpseat ain't a sure thing. Never has been.
As for our "culture" - oh I agree, it pretty much sucks from a labor standpoint. I could make some choice comments but the last time I did I became a bad example for Jackal to use when talking to his kids. So y'all rock on....
07-02-2013, 02:55 PM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 398
I've been on the 777 with 7 people total for HKG to MEM. It wasn't that bad. The hardest part was finding places for the bags and food. A few bags had to go behind the hard wall. Oh, one downside- there was a line for the head at one point- that was a first!
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