FDX - 727 Disputed Pairings - Jun 2012
05-18-2012, 12:15 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,199
FDX - 727 Disputed Pairings - Jun 2012
For all who don't read the SIG Notes --- the MEM-BFM-QRO-MEM 1-day disputed pairing is BACK!!
This pairing was successfully disputed in prior months, and the company finally did the right (i.e. "safe") thing and broke it up into a 2-day trip with a realistic layover, which properlyrecognized and mitigated the sleep challenges & fatigue risks associated with this pairing.
Unfortunately, that's all been reversed.
It's easy to spot ---- Trip #2 all month.
Every Tue, Wed & Thu in June.
Let's show leadership & unity in every seat by NOT requesting this trip during the View/Add window, Secondary Line construction, General Makup or OTP.
New guys --- if you're uninformed/don't understand the significance of non-reserve crews flying Disputed Pairings voluntarily, please get educated on the issue --- FAST!
Fly safely!
In Unity,
DLax
This pairing was successfully disputed in prior months, and the company finally did the right (i.e. "safe") thing and broke it up into a 2-day trip with a realistic layover, which properlyrecognized and mitigated the sleep challenges & fatigue risks associated with this pairing.
Unfortunately, that's all been reversed.
It's easy to spot ---- Trip #2 all month.
Every Tue, Wed & Thu in June.
Let's show leadership & unity in every seat by NOT requesting this trip during the View/Add window, Secondary Line construction, General Makup or OTP.
New guys --- if you're uninformed/don't understand the significance of non-reserve crews flying Disputed Pairings voluntarily, please get educated on the issue --- FAST!
Fly safely!
In Unity,
DLax
05-19-2012, 10:08 AM
#4
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 67
I actually like the trip. I have done at least 8-10 of them on RA. I would be happy to do them on TUES and THURS every week. I would never pick up a disputed pairing but you must realize that we are all different. I contacted the sig about the trip and first was told that the trip was not safe. Then, later was told that it was not commutable. I like working two days a week and rather be home instead of lounging around a hotel. That's just me though. The problem is our SIG wants only double deadhead week long trips because they think we all commute. Ad long as you are not hub turning the trip is perfectly safe for ME. I have seen pleanty of commuters fly horrendous trips all in the name of efficiency.
05-19-2012, 10:13 AM
#5
Proponent of Hysteria
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 3B
Posts: 1,052
I am absolutely shocked, no flabbergasted actually, that the DP process has failed us once again.
You get what you deserve if you pick up this pairing, that said it will go like hotcakes at a motocross.
The DP "process" needs to be shiat-canned now. We can't continue to allow the weakest among us to dictate what an acceptable pairing should be.
You get what you deserve if you pick up this pairing, that said it will go like hotcakes at a motocross.
The DP "process" needs to be shiat-canned now. We can't continue to allow the weakest among us to dictate what an acceptable pairing should be.
05-19-2012, 11:06 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 727 Captain
Posts: 205
Let me state for the record, that I am 150% supportive of DLax and his intentions.
While we all want to be "absolutely correct", in all of our opinions, we do need to accept the occasional contrarian data point. The final analysis should make clear, that while a small percentage of our crew force may find a particular pairing acceptable, the aggregate might find it onerous a majority of the time. In the same way the crew force shouldn't expect all pairings to be a day in the park, the company cannot expect that a questionable pairing to be safe for any crew member that might be assigned to fly it, all of the time.
That is why we have the disputed pairing process, and more importantly, why we as fraternal brethren should support the SIG in their endeavor to make ALL pairings acceptable for ANY of us. If you get one of these on Reserve, please be honest and frank in your analysis and perspective. But for the rest of us, NEVER undermine the process by willingly picking one up while the process is under way.
Thanks again DLax for your diligence and focus on keep ALL of us safe!
While we all want to be "absolutely correct", in all of our opinions, we do need to accept the occasional contrarian data point. The final analysis should make clear, that while a small percentage of our crew force may find a particular pairing acceptable, the aggregate might find it onerous a majority of the time. In the same way the crew force shouldn't expect all pairings to be a day in the park, the company cannot expect that a questionable pairing to be safe for any crew member that might be assigned to fly it, all of the time.
That is why we have the disputed pairing process, and more importantly, why we as fraternal brethren should support the SIG in their endeavor to make ALL pairings acceptable for ANY of us. If you get one of these on Reserve, please be honest and frank in your analysis and perspective. But for the rest of us, NEVER undermine the process by willingly picking one up while the process is under way.
Thanks again DLax for your diligence and focus on keep ALL of us safe!
05-19-2012, 08:27 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,199
I actually like the trip. I have done at least 8-10 of them on RA. I would be happy to do them on TUES and THURS every week. I would never pick up a disputed pairing but you must realize that we are all different. I contacted the sig about the trip and first was told that the trip was not safe. Then, later was told that it was not commutable. I like working two days a week and rather be home instead of lounging around a hotel. That's just me though. The problem is our SIG wants only double deadhead week long trips because they think we all commute. Ad long as you are not hub turning the trip is perfectly safe for ME. I have seen pleanty of commuters fly horrendous trips all in the name of efficiency.
Just wondering, on this pairing how soon after arriving in BFM do you go to sleep?
(I note it's a relatively short layover to a early/mid afternoon crew bus, followed by two 2+45 block legs into QRO and then MEM....thus, I assume you try to go to sleep right away)
Do you initially show up in MEM for this pairing "rested" or "tired"?
If your outbound trip was revised or you were put into SUB on your initial showtime would you be ready to execute a different trip sequence in the AM with a longer (or max) crew duty day, instead of one short leg to BFM?
Since stated you wouldn't want to HUB Turn with these trips, I assume you are a bit tired after flying the two longer legs in the PM into MEM.
You say you like to fly the Tue & Thu versions --- who should fly the Wed trips?
(...MEM based pilots? ...commuters?)
Should the Wed flyers, just fly Mon, Wed and Fri trips --- or hubturn in to / out of the Wed trips on Tues & Thu for better line efficiency?
I know the 727 bidpack has lost the vast majority of AM & PM out-n-backs, but as a general rule do you think it's wise for us to redesign our Out-n-backs, so they are basically "half an AM O&B with a full PM O&B"?
(Since that's really the genesis of this trip construction)
I wonder what that type of line construction would do to the total # of lines in our bid packs.
Thanks for sharing your perspective,
Fly safely!
DLax
Last edited by DLax85; 05-19-2012 at 08:40 PM.
05-20-2012, 01:04 PM
#9
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 67
Parks31 -
Just wondering, on this pairing how soon after arriving in BFM do you go to sleep?
(I note it's a relatively short layover to a early/mid afternoon crew bus, followed by two 2+45 block legs into QRO and then MEM....thus, I assume you try to go to sleep right away)
Do you initially show up in MEM for this pairing "rested" or "tired"?
If your outbound trip was revised or you were put into SUB on your initial showtime would you be ready to execute a different trip sequence in the AM with a longer (or max) crew duty day, instead of one short leg to BFM?
Since stated you wouldn't want to HUB Turn with these trips, I assume you are a bit tired after flying the two longer legs in the PM into MEM.
You say you like to fly the Tue & Thu versions --- who should fly the Wed trips?
(...MEM based pilots? ...commuters?)
Should the Wed flyers, just fly Mon, Wed and Fri trips --- or hubturn in to / out of the Wed trips on Tues & Thu for better line efficiency?
I know the 727 bidpack has lost the vast majority of AM & PM out-n-backs, but as a general rule do you think it's wise for us to redesign our Out-n-backs, so they are basically "half an AM O&B with a full PM O&B"?
(Since that's really the genesis of this trip construction)
I wonder what that type of line construction would do to the total # of lines in our bid packs.
Thanks for sharing your perspective,
Fly safely!
DLax
Just wondering, on this pairing how soon after arriving in BFM do you go to sleep?
(I note it's a relatively short layover to a early/mid afternoon crew bus, followed by two 2+45 block legs into QRO and then MEM....thus, I assume you try to go to sleep right away)
Do you initially show up in MEM for this pairing "rested" or "tired"?
If your outbound trip was revised or you were put into SUB on your initial showtime would you be ready to execute a different trip sequence in the AM with a longer (or max) crew duty day, instead of one short leg to BFM?
Since stated you wouldn't want to HUB Turn with these trips, I assume you are a bit tired after flying the two longer legs in the PM into MEM.
You say you like to fly the Tue & Thu versions --- who should fly the Wed trips?
(...MEM based pilots? ...commuters?)
Should the Wed flyers, just fly Mon, Wed and Fri trips --- or hubturn in to / out of the Wed trips on Tues & Thu for better line efficiency?
I know the 727 bidpack has lost the vast majority of AM & PM out-n-backs, but as a general rule do you think it's wise for us to redesign our Out-n-backs, so they are basically "half an AM O&B with a full PM O&B"?
(Since that's really the genesis of this trip construction)
I wonder what that type of line construction would do to the total # of lines in our bid packs.
Thanks for sharing your perspective,
Fly safely!
DLax
05-20-2012, 01:15 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Bent Over
Posts: 531
Without causing an argument, which is virtually impossible on this board, I was just trying to explain that everyone is different. I live in MEM. Can sleep from 8:00 pm till 1:00 am. Fly to BFM then sleep from 5:00 am till 11:00. That is more than 8 hours. It works for me. I eat lunch then I am ready to go. I am very hyper and have no trouble on pm part of pairing. I would never fly disputed pairing and I am 10 or so from the bottom on the Captain list. I am not trying to pick a fight, I just get tired of the same mind set that all trips should be commuter friendly double dead head. I like am o/b's and keep getting told they are unsafe. Which to me means they are not great for commuters. I would be happy to do the QRO trip if it only did it 2 days a week. That would be 72 hours for a month. I don't like hub turning no matter what trip it is. For me and my body they are unsafe. If anyone wants to pm me and discuss this trip I would be happy to. Thanks for understanding.
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