twebb

Wasn't the 2 year agreement with ATI a bit of a grey area on what happens if you get furloughed from ATI? I could have some of this wrong, so correct me. A furloughed ABX guy went to ATI, he was then fired from ATI and ABX management said he could come back. However, the union said he wasn't eligible to come back to ABX because he had a 2 year agreement with ATI, and it didn't matter what happened, you can't come back for 2 years. So this set precedence. Now ATI pilots are furloughed, and management said, "Union, you told us they aren't eligible to come back here for a full 2 years" and the union said, "Oh yeah, we made a mistake, but now lets try to reverse what we set with the other guy."

So that part caused a lot of confusion.

NeedAJob

That's absolutely incorrect. Side Letter 34 said that crew members who "ARE RECALLED" to another ATSG carrier shall be ineligible for recall to ABX for 2 years. Which ATSG carrier are the furloughed pilots recalled to?

The Union never took the position that furloughed ATI/ABX pilots couldn't return to ABX for two years. Why in the world would they do that. The Company twisted the context of a Union letter written by an attorney completely out of context applying it to a situation that was not even discussed in the letter...furloughs. The Union hasn't reversed their position on this.

In the Union letter, the attorney said that ABX shouldn't postpone recalls (of the pilots then remaining on the list who have since been called) in order to include pilots who may be furloughed from ATI at some point in the future (at that point their were no furloughs at ATI). This position was taken to protect the recall rights of the members remaining on the seniority list waiting for recall. It was to prevent the Company from engineering a process to include some and exclude others in a recall process. The letter then went on to say that discussions were necessary to set a procedure for handling a furlough from ATI if it should happen. Those discussion finally took place and the Company agreed that all ABX pilots furloughed from ATI were eligible for recall to ABX since a two year employment lock at ATI only applied if you were employed. What a concept.

There has never been any confusion here. The Company did however as expected try to make the Union sound bad by dissecting incorrectly a union letter that was written for a completely different situation (as described above). They tried to portray them as flip floppers, which wasn't true. Then, as expected, they tried to make themselves sound like heroes. Like they were ignoring the clear language of the side letter to help us furloughed guys out. That of course was total bull crap, since the side letter didn't discuss a furlough. As quoted above, it only applied to pilots who "are recalled". Again, we're not recalled anywhere.

It is preposterous to think the Union would take a job creating side letter (Letter 34) and use it to prevent 15+ year loyal ABX pilots from returning to ABX if furloughed from ATI or any other ATSG carrier. Now the company could try that of course. But as it stands today, as posted in FCL 12-09 the Company agrees that all pilots are eligible for recall. This FCL came out by the way well before any new hires were "hired".

They hired the new hires to save money as said in previous posts, and to spite the Union for the slow progress in negotiating an amendment to the contract through the creation of an Asian Side Letter. As said in previous posts, the company is trying to hold the furloughed pilots and their recall rights hostage to the Asian side letter they desire. This is a clear contract violation. Ultimately, the Company has said they don't care, go stuff it. Their actions with New Hires speaks to that quite clearly.

They claim that recalls aren't necessary without the Asian Side Letter since that side letter would generate growth in the Asian market requiring more crews...thus recalls. Meanwhile their actions contradict this as they illegally hire new hires.

As the Union said, don't listen to their pathetic contorted propaganda. What they are doing is unethical and clearly wrong and in violation to the CBA. No offense, but it sounds like you are regurgitating something management told you Twebb. It just isn't reality or relevant to the furloughed pilots being replaced with new hires.

Everyone don't be gullible!! This is an obvious violation. The Company will spin and spin trying to cover themselves, but it just isn't reality! They are violating the contract and the rights of each furloughed Crewmembers. To accept a replacement position at ABX is nothing short of wrong. You are taking a protected Union job to better yourself at the expense of others. Use your own brain to recognize the lies you'll hear in the interview or indoc. about what management is doing concerning OUR recalls and OUR jobs.

ATCsaidDoWhat

Ummm...no. The failure is first with the ABX ExCo. Local 1224 represents several carriers and it is the responsibility of the ABX ExCo to first address the issue and then take it to Local 1224 and then if requested by the ExCo, Local 1224 would engage the International.

twebb

NeedAJob, thanks for the clarification. And you definitely corrected my wrong statement, thank you.

SheriffWydell

Today is the 12th day that replacement workers are enjoying work at ABX while 2 dozen pilots remain furloughed and ready to return.

742Dash

Hete is a citizen of the United States and a human being. He should be expected to conduct himself in an ethical and legal manner, just like the rest of us. Within those bounds he should maximize shareholder value.

This dea that it is OK to act like a psychopath when someone gets the corner office and the CEO title is relatively new, deeply flawed and extremely dangerous.

trout

One of you ABX guys need to get on APC and update the furlough status. It still states zero!

abxflyr

While the Sheriff and Need have some valid points, afterall this is a total screw-up from the ABX management group, there is always information that is missing and/or misconstrued as given from an individual perspective. Some additional points to consider.

- The 1224 Exco is awaiting to complete some acceptable solution (from ABX) to the problem of 2 additional new-hires. It is ABX’s problem and that has been acknowledged; but a solution that all can live with has to be identified….more to come on this.

- An ATI pilot did get fired and will not be eligible for (ABX) recall until 2 years expire from his initial ATI hire date. This is to protect from the concept of getting yourself fired at times when ABX may be recalling around individuals seniority.

- ABX’s CBA does not address when vacancies must be filled from insufficient position postings. So, while many may not like the concept that ABX did have legal/CBA rights to 5 new-hire positions it is a fact. Don’t confuse facts with what is morally and properly the correct thing to do….ABX management could have gone either way, but chose the corporate choice rather than the ethically correct one.

- People who have/are accepted these new-hire positions are innocent and should in no-way be held accountable to why these jobs exist. They have not taken anyone’s job (although 2 positions are acknowledged to be in dispute, ref: above).

Many should know that when ABX does recall again (whenever that may be), it will be for ‘insufficient’ positions from a Feb class posting. Those are the next legal CBA openings and will follow the normal master seniority list for recall. Yes, this means ATI’ers who has exceeded their 2 year locks will be on the list first, in addition to anyone else whose bypass date may have expired. Just normal seniority…which in fact could mean that many who are furloughed from ATI will be too junior to hold a slot at ABX.

For now, lets just see what the solution is to the 2 who were hired in error and if that is acceptable to everyone involved (I’m withholding my opinion till I know what it is..). For the record, I too am in a similar boat as I am employed with ATI (for now), but wish to return to ABX when my seniority will allow.

Lastly, I think everyone has a calendar and we do not need a daily tally hostage days, or updates on college tuition, food supplies, going out for entertainment, or buying new boxers.

SheriffWydell

I agree that, in a perfect world, ABX management would do the decent thing and hire furloughed pilots instead of hiring replacement workers. If we lived in that world, we would not have a need to pay dues to the Teamsters Union and Local 1224. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world.

ABXFlyr. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe protecting recall rights is one of the primary duties of the labor union. ABX management may have created the problem but 1224 is responsible for making sure that they fix it properly. Any solution that involves retaining replacement workers while more senior pilots remain on furlough is a neglect of duty.

SheriffWydell

If these replacement workers didn't know they were taking jobs away from furloughed pilots then I agree that they are not to blame. There were some who knew exactly what they were doing. Feel free to welcome those with open arms if you want.