NeedAJob

No fight...just conversation and perspective. So how are you going to feel when the next recall (following CBA timelines, etc.) will serve recall notices to some who are employed at ATI, have met their 2 year requirement, and are not on furlough. Yes, that means guys will "effectively never miss a day of pay while occupying the opening at ABX that could have gotten someone legitimately unemployed back to work."

To further the discussion...leaving ATI to accept an ABX recall. That process hasn't been tested yet. It is very conceivable that one can take a voluntary furlough vs. simply quitting from ATI thereby retaining a recall right at ATI (as allowed via the ALPA CBA). It's not illegal, nor wrong, as voluntary furloughs are granted by management based upon management rights. Most all CBA goven involuntary furloughs, the methods, notification, etc....but voluntary ones are just that. Again, a voluntary may or may not save someone else's position...purely managements choice. This in effect can allow "you just hopped into a spot at ABX, effectively you just blocked someone else from getting a job. Meanwhile your employment was never in jeopardy."

I certainly hope you're not implying that someone should just keep their position at ATI and give up their recall right, seniority, and eventually job at ABX, so others who are furloughed can gain employment there.

It always sucks to be the junior guy on the pole, but it is a significant part of our industry...even the crux of the 2 who are getting away argument! If I weren't so junior I wouldn't have gotten furloughed in the 1st place...but, there still is a list, and that means someone higher on that list is going to have employment at ATI first, be furloughed from there last, and get recalled at ABX before others. If that's something you have difficulity with....well, I can only say "go corporate".


I can appreciate your perspective, and am glad to have this conversation. I'll take just a couple minutes to answer the points I have more interest in.

First. I have no problem (though the timing sucks for us) with pilots who have "satisfied" their two year agreement being recalled to ABX in front of us. That's the just the way the timing shakes out. Nor do I have any problem with the seniority system, though it certainly sucks to be at the bottom of the list, trust me, I've been on the bottom for a while.

The only major point that I take issue with is jumping on a voluntary furlough after the fact. That is after the fact that others have been furloughed that you could have volunteered to take the place of. You're correct in agreeing with me that there's no guarantee that management will recall a pilot on a one for one basis if you accept a reactive voluntary furlough. However, I think we would both agree that if you took the voluntary furlough now, the issue never comes up. That is to say - take the voluntary furlough "before" someone else takes the bullet for you needlessly if you intend to go to ABX.

We can discuss the issue of right and wrong, fair and unfair all day, but I think I have made a solid point. Your point may be technically legal. That's not necessarily my argument. I would only argue that it would be better to do the upstanding thing and take the voluntary furlough "now" to protect someone else rather than letting someone else take an unnecessary bullet.

This is extremely simple. Its not hard to follow. Who was on FURLOUGH STATUS on March 14? Not you. You have yet to pull the trigger on yourself. If you had, you could come join our happy little disfunctional family and be at the top of the list that was violated by the new hires. You have yet to do that. Your status on March 14 and still today is EMPLOYED under the restrictions of Side Letter 34.

I believe the Union agrees with the above paragraph, and will understand that only those who were actually furloughed were violated by the New Hires' illegal employment (not those who had agreed in principle to accept a voluntary furlough on the contingency of immediate employment at ABX while shouldering no risk and maintaining employment under Letter 34)

Again, you're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

NeedAJob

Kinda messed up the previous post. Obviously the first half is a quote of ABXflyr with the second half being my own thoughts. Just to clarify.

Larry in TN

The point is moot. The first group completes their lock-in requirement tomorrow leaving those guys eligible for recall without the need for a voluntary furlough.

flyboyike

Question: supposing the whole mess with the 24 (or whatever) furloughees gets resolved, and all 24 accept recall. Would that mean ABX won't be hiring for decades to come or what?

rollndadice

The 24 number needs to be revised. Realistically right now there are about 40 people currently furloughed /off lock with ATI that must be "hired" before any off the street guys. Add to that the already divulged future furloughs at ATI (who knows how many, if not all of them??) and the number could easily soar to around 60+.

With that being said, who knows what might happen. ATI is bleeding out, contractual relief for flying in Asia is getting wrapped up and will be sent for ratification (who know if that will pass??) but if it does that could mean a bunch more flying. Rumors have ABX getting a bunch more frames this year, all long haul, crew intensive international flying.

I would not count on any exterior hiring for a while, though. (I said that same thing about 6 months ago, too, so who frickin' knows!)

essayons

Skymaster-
We put up the good fight. We lost. We need to move on in our post-DHL/Astar lives. The ramifications of hiring off the street pilots extends beyond the Astar V. Abx fight. We should support this.

Skymaster

Naw, this is like watching a huge trainwreck in slow motion.

Never forget.

NeedAJob

Never forget. That malicious line is overused in this industry. What a childish sentiment. Someone needed more whippings growing up.

Didn't you say us wild ABX dogs should move on? Yet you "never forget"...sounds like you're over due for a look in the mirror? Hypocritical to say the least.

Again...why bother.

flyinboxes

What if uncle Joe decides to run ATI into BK?(Very possible) then shift the flying over to the Capital cert.? Have heard a Bankruptcy is under consideration for ATI or ATSG as a whole in order to reorganize the whole mess.....at the expense of labor of course. $7.75 Joe!

130drvr

Cappy can't do the flying that is unique to ATI's cert. Greenland, HAZMAT, Combi.....etc, etc....