To all folks contemplating HKG/CGN with Fedex
03-12-2012, 07:58 PM
#21
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
It is this kind of ignorance that continues to fuel all the standard misconceptions about foreign domiciles...
Five families involved. Five different sets of unique circumstances.
The facts may or may not eventually come out, considering the company includes non-disclosure agreements in most settlements, we may never know the specifics.
Suffice to say, the situation is much more complex than you describe.
If you want a gross over-simplification, here it is:
HKG crews consider their time off theirs to do with as they please, and that includes travel where and when they wish.
FDX management feels that they are entitled to demand that HKG crews and their families spend a yet undefined portion of their time off at their "center of gravity" (a new term coined by management) which is HKG, because they are receiving the housing allowance benefit.
None of this is spelled out clearly in any document signed by any FDX crewmember in HKG.
Five families involved. Five different sets of unique circumstances.
The facts may or may not eventually come out, considering the company includes non-disclosure agreements in most settlements, we may never know the specifics.
Suffice to say, the situation is much more complex than you describe.
If you want a gross over-simplification, here it is:
HKG crews consider their time off theirs to do with as they please, and that includes travel where and when they wish.
FDX management feels that they are entitled to demand that HKG crews and their families spend a yet undefined portion of their time off at their "center of gravity" (a new term coined by management) which is HKG, because they are receiving the housing allowance benefit.
None of this is spelled out clearly in any document signed by any FDX crewmember in HKG.
03-12-2012, 08:06 PM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 28
Bingo. Because there is no specific definition, contractually, to "moving" to HKG, other than what is spelled out in the FDA section, you should be free to do what you want on your days off. For the Company to say that you do not have the freedom to go where you want when you are not working is a little crazy.
.
03-12-2012, 08:19 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
I heard they took the money and didn't move their families to the domicile. It seems pretty clear to me.
No one has been forced into a FDA. Don't like the deal, don't bid it. I think the deal stinks, therefore, I wouldn't bid it.
There are just a few ways to get fired at Fedex. Gawking at women at the Tucson hotel, or not being honest with their money. Sounds like these guys weren't being honest. Sorry, I don't feel sorry for them...
No one has been forced into a FDA. Don't like the deal, don't bid it. I think the deal stinks, therefore, I wouldn't bid it.
There are just a few ways to get fired at Fedex. Gawking at women at the Tucson hotel, or not being honest with their money. Sounds like these guys weren't being honest. Sorry, I don't feel sorry for them...
03-12-2012, 08:49 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
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Thanks for the quick response. Ouch! I wonder why you can't do what the IRS says you can do?
Are your living allowances and educational benefits excluded as income for tax purposes?
Does the LOA allow you commute from the states or say from England? My wife is British and wants to move back to England. Pretty far fetched huh!
Thanks for the quick response. Ouch! I wonder why you can't do what the IRS says you can do?
Are your living allowances and educational benefits excluded as income for tax purposes?
Does the LOA allow you commute from the states or say from England? My wife is British and wants to move back to England. Pretty far fetched huh!
It is because the company pockets the tax break in exchange for paying out living in HKG expenses. The exclusion is claimed, but the company not the individual pockets it.
I dont really care much what the facts are; the union should be supporting the 5 families with all the gusto they give in granting Christmas vacation to MEC officers. They should also be spelling out what is and isnt required when living in an FDA. We have guys moving to Germany every month, and we have a bid that is about to open. But as far as the company demands for where you live on your time off; I am pretty sure I told you so. But I was just a proponent of hystaria.
03-13-2012, 02:54 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,989
Except the military wouldn't investigate and fire you and a couple of your fellow pilots if you decided to pool your housing allowance, share an apartment and possibly save a little cash to help defray costs in an expensive city (especially since there is no COLA).
03-13-2012, 04:30 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
FedEx is a great company to work for and I count my blessings every day for ending up here. FedEx management in general and Flight management in particular has done a great job keeping the crew force happy.
There is one huge exception, the FDA mess. ALPA let it happen because it is out of sight and out of mind. Same can be said about the crew force in general. The company is out to save pennies for the short term.
In the case of Hong Kong we have one of the most expensive places to live in the world. I knew quite a few pilots that went to Cathay Pacific in the mid to late 70s. They were getting a US$60,000 housing allowance more than 20-30 years ago. Quite a few bought houses/apartments and took out the longest mortgage available, 10 years. When their houses/apartments were paid off they continued to receive that allowance until they retired. My cousin's son is a pilot for Cathay and transfered from the USA to Hong Kong last year. Cathay pays for his apartment, around US$6000 per month.
If the company did it right Hong Kong could be one very senior place that would see very little turnover. The way it is now it will keep the training department very busy.
There is one huge exception, the FDA mess. ALPA let it happen because it is out of sight and out of mind. Same can be said about the crew force in general. The company is out to save pennies for the short term.
In the case of Hong Kong we have one of the most expensive places to live in the world. I knew quite a few pilots that went to Cathay Pacific in the mid to late 70s. They were getting a US$60,000 housing allowance more than 20-30 years ago. Quite a few bought houses/apartments and took out the longest mortgage available, 10 years. When their houses/apartments were paid off they continued to receive that allowance until they retired. My cousin's son is a pilot for Cathay and transfered from the USA to Hong Kong last year. Cathay pays for his apartment, around US$6000 per month.
If the company did it right Hong Kong could be one very senior place that would see very little turnover. The way it is now it will keep the training department very busy.
03-13-2012, 05:15 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Retired
Posts: 404
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Thanks for the quick response. Ouch! I wonder why you can't do what the IRS says you can do?
Are your living allowances and educational benefits excluded as income for tax purposes?
Does the LOA allow you commute from the states or say from England? My wife is British and wants to move back to England. Pretty far fetched huh!
Thanks for the quick response. Ouch! I wonder why you can't do what the IRS says you can do?
Are your living allowances and educational benefits excluded as income for tax purposes?
Does the LOA allow you commute from the states or say from England? My wife is British and wants to move back to England. Pretty far fetched huh!
03-13-2012, 08:08 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
[/FONT][/COLOR]
Thanks for the quick response. Ouch! I wonder why you can't do what the IRS says you can do?
Are your living allowances and educational benefits excluded as income for tax purposes?
Does the LOA allow you commute from the states or say from England? My wife is British and wants to move back to England. Pretty far fetched huh!
Thanks for the quick response. Ouch! I wonder why you can't do what the IRS says you can do?
Are your living allowances and educational benefits excluded as income for tax purposes?
Does the LOA allow you commute from the states or say from England? My wife is British and wants to move back to England. Pretty far fetched huh!
As far as I can tell you can commute from England, you just lose the housing allowance. You may lose some other tax provisions like claiming private school deduction. To get all the "goodies" you have to live in Germany (not waiverable) and within 100nm of CGN (waiverable).
Personally, as a new hire I would probably plan on spending a couple of years within 100 nm of cgn; then work the commute. But, making frau woodro probably has its advatages.
Last edited by FDXLAG; 03-13-2012 at 08:19 AM.
03-13-2012, 11:40 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: CRJ Captain
Posts: 1,406
Same as the US domestic; 1 or 2 legs into CDG, sit for a couple of hours, and 1 or 2 legs out. All at night. Some variation but you wont see it unless you are on reserve. 6 hours pay ~ 4 hours of block. Most trips start and end with a dh to out station so leave sun or mon, back fri or sat for a 30~36 hour pay week.
03-13-2012, 12:06 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
The LOA stinks. I voted against LOA 1 and the interim contract. I wouldn't bid either FDA under the current rules. That said, for those that bid the FDA, you should understand and abide by the rules.
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