FedEx MEC on wrong Track
02-29-2012, 03:56 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
If you get irritated now (at 85%) dont read Albies posts on the PAC. Apparently there is a new sheriff in town and new rules for the PAC. When 2013 rolls around I'll be sure to let you know what the percentage is. One of you guys is going to be disappointed.
02-29-2012, 04:41 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A300 F/O
Posts: 217
[QUOTE=Laughing_Jakal;1142863]Did you not read the TA entirely before you voted?
I read much of the TA and prior contract before voting but in this case, No, I didn't read this section beforehand. I honestly didn't think that there could be much more to this section than "everybody has to pay dues". I didn't realize that we, as a union, actually put it in writing that we can be terminated for not paying our "administrative fee". I won't make that mistake again...
Seems unfair that our current dues-paying members can be terminated if for some reason or another they decided to no longer contribute, when we grandfathered 300+ non-members back in 2006.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, I initially thought agency shop would capture all of these free-loaders. I didn't even fathom the idea of giving them all a free pass on mandatory dues, and was genuinely shocked and pretty pi$$ed to find out that we had done so. Now we are essentially locked into a situation where ALPA has their hand in our back pocket and there is pretty much nothing you, as an individual, can do about it.
Everybody seems to love the term leverage. I heard it tossed around a lot when we were discussing this last contract...Don't vote for it, we can use the FDA's as leverage. Vote yes! There's no leverage with the FDA's. Blah blah blah.
The fact of the matter is (IMHO) that when we agreed to agency shop in 2006, we gave up the only leverage that we had against ALPA running roughshot over us. It can now pretty much do what it wants, when it wants, however it wants without any repercussions. You want to create some real leverage...start pushing your block reps, MEC, and negotiating committee to get rid of agency shop! Would most guys ever realistically take their money and quit the union to prove a point? I doubt it. But the fact that you would have the power and ability to might be all we need to get ALPA's attention.
I read much of the TA and prior contract before voting but in this case, No, I didn't read this section beforehand. I honestly didn't think that there could be much more to this section than "everybody has to pay dues". I didn't realize that we, as a union, actually put it in writing that we can be terminated for not paying our "administrative fee". I won't make that mistake again...
Seems unfair that our current dues-paying members can be terminated if for some reason or another they decided to no longer contribute, when we grandfathered 300+ non-members back in 2006.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, I initially thought agency shop would capture all of these free-loaders. I didn't even fathom the idea of giving them all a free pass on mandatory dues, and was genuinely shocked and pretty pi$$ed to find out that we had done so. Now we are essentially locked into a situation where ALPA has their hand in our back pocket and there is pretty much nothing you, as an individual, can do about it.
Everybody seems to love the term leverage. I heard it tossed around a lot when we were discussing this last contract...Don't vote for it, we can use the FDA's as leverage. Vote yes! There's no leverage with the FDA's. Blah blah blah.
The fact of the matter is (IMHO) that when we agreed to agency shop in 2006, we gave up the only leverage that we had against ALPA running roughshot over us. It can now pretty much do what it wants, when it wants, however it wants without any repercussions. You want to create some real leverage...start pushing your block reps, MEC, and negotiating committee to get rid of agency shop! Would most guys ever realistically take their money and quit the union to prove a point? I doubt it. But the fact that you would have the power and ability to might be all we need to get ALPA's attention.
02-29-2012, 07:09 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: B757 Capt
Posts: 177
The fact of the matter is (IMHO) that when we agreed to agency shop in 2006, we gave up the only leverage that we had against ALPA running roughshot over us. It can now pretty much do what it wants, when it wants, however it wants without any repercussions. You want to create some real leverage...start pushing your block reps, MEC, and negotiating committee to get rid of agency shop! Would most guys ever realistically take their money and quit the union to prove a point? I doubt it. But the fact that you would have the power and ability to might be all we need to get ALPA's attention.
In the last couple of weeks, we’ve had a very public running gun battle between several of our Block reps and our MEC Officers, then our MEC Vice Chair resigns and on the same day 3 of our 13 MEC block reps are sent to a recall election. Couple of days later, the now ex-MEC Vice throws a stink bomb into the room causing our Negotiating committee Chair and his Vice to resign. All this happening while we are in talks with the Company about pending Section 6 openers. Talk about drama!
And with all this going on, you want what’s left of our supported-MEC to start a fight with ALPA National over Section 29, which has never been an item of contention since (in your words) its inception 2006.
Dude, calm down…protect Essential……wind the clock!
From my view our plate is full and we don’t need to pick a fight with anybody else.
End of procedure.
02-29-2012, 12:04 PM
#84
Bourgeoisie
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 787 SO
Posts: 617
Lets see….
In the last couple of weeks, we’ve had a very public running gun battle between several of our Block reps and our MEC Officers, then our MEC Vice Chair resigns and on the same day 3 of our 13 MEC block reps are sent to a recall election. Couple of days later, the now ex-MEC Vice throws a stink bomb into the room causing our Negotiating committee Chair and his Vice to resign. All this happening while we are in talks with the Company about pending Section 6 openers. Talk about drama!
And with all this going on, you want what’s left of our supported-MEC to start a fight with ALPA National over Section 29, which has never been an item of contention since (in your words) its inception 2006.
Dude, calm down…protect Essential……wind the clock!
From my view our plate is full and we don’t need to pick a fight with anybody else.
End of procedure.
In the last couple of weeks, we’ve had a very public running gun battle between several of our Block reps and our MEC Officers, then our MEC Vice Chair resigns and on the same day 3 of our 13 MEC block reps are sent to a recall election. Couple of days later, the now ex-MEC Vice throws a stink bomb into the room causing our Negotiating committee Chair and his Vice to resign. All this happening while we are in talks with the Company about pending Section 6 openers. Talk about drama!
And with all this going on, you want what’s left of our supported-MEC to start a fight with ALPA National over Section 29, which has never been an item of contention since (in your words) its inception 2006.
Dude, calm down…protect Essential……wind the clock!
From my view our plate is full and we don’t need to pick a fight with anybody else.
End of procedure.
No one is suggesting a mass exodus from ALPA, but without leverage the union leadership (local and national) can and does ignore the wishes of the membership to suit their needs. There is no incentive for them to respond since the worst that can happen is recall and a return to the line. Instead they hold the very existence of someone's livelyhood over their head, expect them to participate fully, and are surprised when they do not. Holding the pursestrings puts the leadership on notice that if people don't like what is happening they can 'vote with their feet' and take their money with them. It is the American way, works for business, and should be well within our rights. Bottom line, we were sold a bill of goods.
Granted, the possibility of national endorsing a membership-approved TA removing agency shop is slim, but if it comes to that it might be time for torches and pitchforks. In this game the only thing that talks is money and since our 'voice' is a virtual certainty, loyalty to the customer (us) is easily manipulated to fulfill personal and institutional agendas contrary to the membership's benefit.
02-29-2012, 12:40 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
A few things in life are certain like death and taxes plus one other thing I can think of. This is the fact that since we voted to have Agency Shop it is here to stay. The ONLY way you will change it is to vote ALPA off the property. No Neutral, no Judge, no vote will ever change that fact of life. It would appear that some did not read the fine print when they voted ALPA in the last time. I'm Shocked!!
02-29-2012, 02:56 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
A few things in life are certain like death and taxes plus one other thing I can think of. This is the fact that since we voted to have Agency Shop it is here to stay. The ONLY way you will change it is to vote ALPA off the property. No Neutral, no Judge, no vote will ever change that fact of life. It would appear that some did not read the fine print when they voted ALPA in the last time. I'm Shocked!!
It wasn't too long ago that I recall, everyone on here screaming for Agency shop to make Freeloaders pay their fair share.
We have so many 1 issue folks here that would quit paying on the drop of a hat. Nope Agency shop is a good thing.
02-29-2012, 03:42 PM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
It's not perfect but better than the alternative. Can't really do anything about the couple hundred of senior non-members. They'll be gone soon anyway.
We have a handful of folks hired in the last 10-15 years who are not members. They were young when hired and will be here awhile. I really wanted to stop that freeloader mentality before it went any farther.
I was a member before and after the agency shop. It doesn't really affect any responsible crewmember.
One thing I'm not is in la la land thinking threats by individuals to stop paying dues will have an appreciable effect on the direction or responsiveness of ALPA National. That's a big boat. Inputs can be made but most changes take a coordinated and persistent effort.
We have a handful of folks hired in the last 10-15 years who are not members. They were young when hired and will be here awhile. I really wanted to stop that freeloader mentality before it went any farther.
I was a member before and after the agency shop. It doesn't really affect any responsible crewmember.
One thing I'm not is in la la land thinking threats by individuals to stop paying dues will have an appreciable effect on the direction or responsiveness of ALPA National. That's a big boat. Inputs can be made but most changes take a coordinated and persistent effort.
02-29-2012, 04:01 PM
#88
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Window Seat -- Left Side
Posts: 112
ALPA Flaws
In case it is not wildly apparent to the casual observer, the APLA constitution and by-laws AUTHORIZE the elected reps to choose the 3 MEC reps. Brilliant!
The block reps AND the MEC should be elected by the pilots. I suggest an immediate amendment to the ALPA C&BL to correct this egregious provision. Hell, we can just make it FedEx ALPA specific if possible -- let the other groups decide. I don't want to hear -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
The current election process would be similar to all the congressional reps and senators deciding on the next President -- WITHOUT the voice of the people! Same thing here ... it's a perfect example of cronyism gone wild.
This MEC is BROKEN.
The NC is BROKEN.
We need a vote of no confidence and the entire lot should be booted.
Regarding BM.
Brad is a freakin' stand-up guy who has gone waayyy beyond anyone on this forum in union service and sacrifice. Isn't it ironic he chooses to step down with essentially the same message as others in dissent? The MEC is not serving the pilots and he is unable to support the officers. We should all reflect on how difficult a decision he faced -- put yourself in his shoes when you read the resignation letter.
As a dues paying member at FedEx for 13 years, I feel I have a right to throw some spears at the process! Essentially, I feel like enough is enough. Enough politicians, enough games, enough passivity...
I'm tired of the "business approach" of dealing with management on contractual issues. We've been outmanned, outgunned, and outsmarted at every turn over the past 2 contracts. We could talk for hours on this topic -- 4A2B, FDA LOA, Age 60, bid disasters, 777 pay, etc. These are essentially total strikeouts by our UNION from top to bottom.
I want a team of professional negotiators. Hired guns with clear cut objectives.
We oversee the process. To think that our own pilots can take a NC orientation course and stand up to a full staff of FedEx attorneys is freakin' laughable and unbelievable arrogant. I'm a pilot, I can do this. So far, I don't see it guys. This is our union and we can negotiate our contracts as we see fit. Maybe other groups will see the wisdom. FedEx might actually take us seriously. Right now it's similar to the shotgun and fish in the barrel approach.
I don't think I'm in the minority here carrying the concerns and frustrations.
I want a UNION that has some freakin' BACKBONE.
Guys that do what's best for the pilots -- ALL THE TIME.
Do you know why?
FedEx does what's best for FedEx -- ALL THE TIME.
I want to see a UNION with some teeth -- gnashing, blood dripping teeth if necessary!
Call it OLD SCHOOL if you like.
FedEx will NEVER take our NC seriously without a swift punch in the teeth.
Our collective contributions to the success of this company need to be properly recognized. They are acutely aware of the impact a hypothetical service interruption would create across the spectrum of operations. Anyone who's been to the Captain's courses in the past sees the message. Let's all get along. Let's not repeat UPS customer losses from the '97 strike. Blah, blah, blah.
They know the impact it would make.
The question is do WE know the strength we actually possess?
No one wants to go to that level but you need to be ready if it comes to that.
I'll bet BM never imagined a resignation happening ... but he was prepared to do it. He chose to do the right thing rather than go down with the Titanic.
4A2B should have been a huge eye-opener to how the cat plays with the mouse at FedEx.. We got OWNED on that one folks.
Wake up people.
I'm frustrated with the MEC and the reps. I salute the efforts and hours spent on our behalf when the push for improvements and support is actually in the right place. There are many who do, but the ones who don't taint the sauce.
I think this is why BM, TH, and CB spoke as they did. Anyone see the trend?
I have zero confidence that the individuals in place on the MEC truly represent me and my fellow pilots with a passion for ALWAYS doing the right thing for the pilots. I am neutral on the current NC -- the only thing I've seen done is a rubber stamp of the 3% bump. Other than that, I have no idea what's happening behind the scenes. I much preferred updates from Gustafson to be honest.
Albie is a popular guy here and for good reason. He appears to be a standup guy and is often open to explaining his perspective. I agree more than I disagree with him on most issues. That's not an full endorsement, just an acknowledgement of past contributions and appreciation. If he wants to take the lead then we need to hear more. An inherent distrust of elected officials is much better than blind faith in them IMO.
The current process of MEC officer elections stifles new blood for sure.
Many of you may wonder if I'm just ranting or willing to step up.
To the MEC -- no.
As a rep or committee member - yes. It wouldn't be the first time either.
I assure you I'm ready to step up and throw a voice of reason into the mix.
I'll be contacting Albie personally for a discussion on these matters.
Clarity -- ALPA is our best option for overall representation.
Kind of like you gotta dance with the girl you brought to the prom.
The difference is we should decide if she's hot or not.
The block reps AND the MEC should be elected by the pilots. I suggest an immediate amendment to the ALPA C&BL to correct this egregious provision. Hell, we can just make it FedEx ALPA specific if possible -- let the other groups decide. I don't want to hear -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
The current election process would be similar to all the congressional reps and senators deciding on the next President -- WITHOUT the voice of the people! Same thing here ... it's a perfect example of cronyism gone wild.
This MEC is BROKEN.
The NC is BROKEN.
We need a vote of no confidence and the entire lot should be booted.
Regarding BM.
Brad is a freakin' stand-up guy who has gone waayyy beyond anyone on this forum in union service and sacrifice. Isn't it ironic he chooses to step down with essentially the same message as others in dissent? The MEC is not serving the pilots and he is unable to support the officers. We should all reflect on how difficult a decision he faced -- put yourself in his shoes when you read the resignation letter.
As a dues paying member at FedEx for 13 years, I feel I have a right to throw some spears at the process! Essentially, I feel like enough is enough. Enough politicians, enough games, enough passivity...
I'm tired of the "business approach" of dealing with management on contractual issues. We've been outmanned, outgunned, and outsmarted at every turn over the past 2 contracts. We could talk for hours on this topic -- 4A2B, FDA LOA, Age 60, bid disasters, 777 pay, etc. These are essentially total strikeouts by our UNION from top to bottom.
I want a team of professional negotiators. Hired guns with clear cut objectives.
We oversee the process. To think that our own pilots can take a NC orientation course and stand up to a full staff of FedEx attorneys is freakin' laughable and unbelievable arrogant. I'm a pilot, I can do this. So far, I don't see it guys. This is our union and we can negotiate our contracts as we see fit. Maybe other groups will see the wisdom. FedEx might actually take us seriously. Right now it's similar to the shotgun and fish in the barrel approach.
I don't think I'm in the minority here carrying the concerns and frustrations.
I want a UNION that has some freakin' BACKBONE.
Guys that do what's best for the pilots -- ALL THE TIME.
Do you know why?
FedEx does what's best for FedEx -- ALL THE TIME.
I want to see a UNION with some teeth -- gnashing, blood dripping teeth if necessary!
Call it OLD SCHOOL if you like.
FedEx will NEVER take our NC seriously without a swift punch in the teeth.
Our collective contributions to the success of this company need to be properly recognized. They are acutely aware of the impact a hypothetical service interruption would create across the spectrum of operations. Anyone who's been to the Captain's courses in the past sees the message. Let's all get along. Let's not repeat UPS customer losses from the '97 strike. Blah, blah, blah.
They know the impact it would make.
The question is do WE know the strength we actually possess?
No one wants to go to that level but you need to be ready if it comes to that.
I'll bet BM never imagined a resignation happening ... but he was prepared to do it. He chose to do the right thing rather than go down with the Titanic.
4A2B should have been a huge eye-opener to how the cat plays with the mouse at FedEx.. We got OWNED on that one folks.
Wake up people.
I'm frustrated with the MEC and the reps. I salute the efforts and hours spent on our behalf when the push for improvements and support is actually in the right place. There are many who do, but the ones who don't taint the sauce.
I think this is why BM, TH, and CB spoke as they did. Anyone see the trend?
I have zero confidence that the individuals in place on the MEC truly represent me and my fellow pilots with a passion for ALWAYS doing the right thing for the pilots. I am neutral on the current NC -- the only thing I've seen done is a rubber stamp of the 3% bump. Other than that, I have no idea what's happening behind the scenes. I much preferred updates from Gustafson to be honest.
Albie is a popular guy here and for good reason. He appears to be a standup guy and is often open to explaining his perspective. I agree more than I disagree with him on most issues. That's not an full endorsement, just an acknowledgement of past contributions and appreciation. If he wants to take the lead then we need to hear more. An inherent distrust of elected officials is much better than blind faith in them IMO.
The current process of MEC officer elections stifles new blood for sure.
Many of you may wonder if I'm just ranting or willing to step up.
To the MEC -- no.
As a rep or committee member - yes. It wouldn't be the first time either.
I assure you I'm ready to step up and throw a voice of reason into the mix.
I'll be contacting Albie personally for a discussion on these matters.
Clarity -- ALPA is our best option for overall representation.
Kind of like you gotta dance with the girl you brought to the prom.
The difference is we should decide if she's hot or not.
Last edited by NoKoolAid; 02-29-2012 at 04:09 PM. Reason: spell check
02-29-2012, 04:03 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
...I read much of the TA and prior contract before voting but in this case, No, I didn't read this section beforehand. I honestly didn't think that there could be much more to this section than "everybody has to pay dues". I didn't realize that we, as a union, actually put it in writing that we can be terminated for not paying our "administrative fee". I won't make that mistake again...
Nice attempt to calm the storm, but it has been brewing steadily. Section 29 is an item of severe contention for a lot of people, especially in light of the current infighting. I have consistently placed the elimination of this clause as the number one priority of the negotiating committee and I know that I am not the only one...
Seriously, what are you people on?
Does anyone else think the discussions here are truly becoming moronic?
02-29-2012, 04:06 PM
#90
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 35
I think it has been an item of contention since DW went against 66% or his constituents...If we were not agency shop there is now way he has the gall to pull that stunt. I remember going to the ALPA / FPA meet and greet. DW said since he became president he was working to get ALPA on property. I thought he was president of FPA....got nothing for him or any of his cronies! Sorry I am off my soap box now.
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