FedEx MEC on wrong Track
02-28-2012, 06:27 PM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,338
I agree
02-28-2012, 06:34 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,338
Not throwing the baby out with the bath water for one. You don't have to agree with where ALPA-PAC puts their money. In fact you don't even have to contribute. These political beliefs should not prevent you from contributing to your own local FDX ALPA through volunteerism and engagement. How the connection is made between condoms and abortions and our own CBA and MEC is beyond me.
02-28-2012, 06:50 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
"Mr. Ornstein slowly started making changes to CCAIR. First the high-maintenance Jetstream 32's were grounded and Mesa's Beech 1900s were brought in to replace the Jetstreams. Finally, in 2002, a deep concessionary agreement was proposed to the CCAIR pilots. When voted upon and ratified, ALPA (Airline Pilots Association) President, Duane Woerth promised the CCAIR pilots he would sign off on the agreement, but reneged when he felt the agreement was too concessionary in nature. A few pilots attempted to sue ALPA in federal court in Charlotte, but US District Court Judge Graham Muellen upheld ALPA's decision not to allow the new Collective Bargaining Agreement to take effect. On November 4, 2002, CCAIR ceased operations."
02-28-2012, 06:55 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Who wouldnt it is reasonable and 100% out from his 1st post. Except I dare him to back up his condems, abortion, CBA and MEC line. No one made that connection accept for him. I agree with his pac comments no one has to contribute. Not sure why they get huffy when I point out that 85% of ALPAPAC money went to one party though.
02-28-2012, 06:58 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,338
Ok.....here is a place that ALPA-PAC probably got some tax incentives for what it believes to be its demographic
Staffer Refers Mustache Bill to Committee, Without Congressman's Consent | The Weekly Standard
Staffer Refers Mustache Bill to Committee, Without Congressman's Consent | The Weekly Standard
02-28-2012, 07:13 PM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 11 Capt
Posts: 509
97% after Gil Mook introduced the "optimizer". 50% in the mid/late 90's. It was the company that drove that number not the goodness of peoples heart. My point is that after awhile everyone will have some reason not to pay.
02-28-2012, 07:18 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Who wouldnt it is reasonable and 100% out from his 1st post. Except I dare him to back up his condems, abortion, CBA and MEC line. No one made that connection accept for him. I agree with his pac comments no one has to contribute. Not sure why they get huffy when I point out that 85% of ALPAPAC money went to one party though.
02-28-2012, 07:23 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,068
From what I recall about CC Air, they had a very good contract, compensation and work rule wise, during the time there was a big push from National to try and put the cat back into the bag on outsourcing. This was during the time most regionals were getting much improved contracts, with the Comair strike being the most visible/memorable thing during that time although I believe Trans States did walk out twice during that time frame as well(think their MC was fired as well, but I'm not sure).
IIRC, Ornstein had pretty much gutted CC Air by the time this final concessionary deal came about with other Mesa assets surrounding them everywhere and CC down to a handful of Dashes. He probably only kept them around for their separate certificate, much like Air Midwest's cert was never combined, but in their case it seems likely the intention was for CC Air to serve the role that Mesa's alter ego Freedom Airlines operation did to circumvent UsAir mainline scope with a healthy helping of concessions on the side just for the fun of it. Iow, I can see how it was a tough call for Woerth who I'm no big fan of.
I'm sure I got some of this wrong, but it's what I remember, here's the fast read on the courts upholding ALPA's rejection of the CC Air deal(kind of depressing as the same fast read has info on a TA at Champion and Midway (II) resuming ops):
2. Court Upholds ALPA's Rejection of CCAir Contract
A federal district court judge last week rejected efforts by Mesa Air Group to judicially impose a concessionary collective bargaining proposal for pilots at CCAir.
Ruling in a suit initially brought by a CCAir pilot and later joined by management, Chief U.S. District Judge Graham C. Mullen denied a motion for a preliminary injunction to force ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, to sign the CCAir agreement.
CCAir's pilots ratified the management-proposed contract on April 29, but the Association rejected it because it had been advanced by CCAir and Mesa Air Group management in a climate of extreme intimidation, unjustifiably degrading working conditions for the pilot group and providing no guarantee that CCAir would survive.
Judge Mullen noted that ALPA's requirement under its Constitution and By-Laws that all collective bargaining agreements be reviewed and signed by the union president was well known to CCAir. He added that, even absent a signed agreement, CCAir's fate was determined solely by US Airways, for whom CCAir provided service as a Mesa subsidiary.
Following the hearing, Captain Woerth said, "At this point, we are hoping that we can take this out of the courtroom and back to the bargaining table where it belongs, so that we can work together to try to save CCAir pilots' jobs."
IIRC, Ornstein had pretty much gutted CC Air by the time this final concessionary deal came about with other Mesa assets surrounding them everywhere and CC down to a handful of Dashes. He probably only kept them around for their separate certificate, much like Air Midwest's cert was never combined, but in their case it seems likely the intention was for CC Air to serve the role that Mesa's alter ego Freedom Airlines operation did to circumvent UsAir mainline scope with a healthy helping of concessions on the side just for the fun of it. Iow, I can see how it was a tough call for Woerth who I'm no big fan of.
I'm sure I got some of this wrong, but it's what I remember, here's the fast read on the courts upholding ALPA's rejection of the CC Air deal(kind of depressing as the same fast read has info on a TA at Champion and Midway (II) resuming ops):
2. Court Upholds ALPA's Rejection of CCAir Contract
A federal district court judge last week rejected efforts by Mesa Air Group to judicially impose a concessionary collective bargaining proposal for pilots at CCAir.
Ruling in a suit initially brought by a CCAir pilot and later joined by management, Chief U.S. District Judge Graham C. Mullen denied a motion for a preliminary injunction to force ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, to sign the CCAir agreement.
CCAir's pilots ratified the management-proposed contract on April 29, but the Association rejected it because it had been advanced by CCAir and Mesa Air Group management in a climate of extreme intimidation, unjustifiably degrading working conditions for the pilot group and providing no guarantee that CCAir would survive.
Judge Mullen noted that ALPA's requirement under its Constitution and By-Laws that all collective bargaining agreements be reviewed and signed by the union president was well known to CCAir. He added that, even absent a signed agreement, CCAir's fate was determined solely by US Airways, for whom CCAir provided service as a Mesa subsidiary.
Following the hearing, Captain Woerth said, "At this point, we are hoping that we can take this out of the courtroom and back to the bargaining table where it belongs, so that we can work together to try to save CCAir pilots' jobs."
02-28-2012, 10:27 PM
#80
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
From what I recall about CC Air, they had a very good contract, compensation and work rule wise, during the time there was a big push from National to try and put the cat back into the bag on outsourcing. This was during the time most regionals were getting much improved contracts, with the Comair strike being the most visible/memorable thing during that time although I believe Trans States did walk out twice during that time frame as well(think their MC was fired as well, but I'm not sure).
IIRC, Ornstein had pretty much gutted CC Air by the time this final concessionary deal came about with other Mesa assets surrounding them everywhere and CC down to a handful of Dashes. He probably only kept them around for their separate certificate, much like Air Midwest's cert was never combined, but in their case it seems likely the intention was for CC Air to serve the role that Mesa's alter ego Freedom Airlines operation did to circumvent UsAir mainline scope with a healthy helping of concessions on the side just for the fun of it. Iow, I can see how it was a tough call for Woerth who I'm no big fan of.
I'm sure I got some of this wrong, but it's what I remember, here's the fast read on the courts upholding ALPA's rejection of the CC Air deal(kind of depressing as the same fast read has info on a TA at Champion and Midway (II) resuming ops):
2. Court Upholds ALPA's Rejection of CCAir Contract
A federal district court judge last week rejected efforts by Mesa Air Group to judicially impose a concessionary collective bargaining proposal for pilots at CCAir.
Ruling in a suit initially brought by a CCAir pilot and later joined by management, Chief U.S. District Judge Graham C. Mullen denied a motion for a preliminary injunction to force ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, to sign the CCAir agreement.
CCAir's pilots ratified the management-proposed contract on April 29, but the Association rejected it because it had been advanced by CCAir and Mesa Air Group management in a climate of extreme intimidation, unjustifiably degrading working conditions for the pilot group and providing no guarantee that CCAir would survive.
Judge Mullen noted that ALPA's requirement under its Constitution and By-Laws that all collective bargaining agreements be reviewed and signed by the union president was well known to CCAir. He added that, even absent a signed agreement, CCAir's fate was determined solely by US Airways, for whom CCAir provided service as a Mesa subsidiary.
Following the hearing, Captain Woerth said, "At this point, we are hoping that we can take this out of the courtroom and back to the bargaining table where it belongs, so that we can work together to try to save CCAir pilots' jobs."
IIRC, Ornstein had pretty much gutted CC Air by the time this final concessionary deal came about with other Mesa assets surrounding them everywhere and CC down to a handful of Dashes. He probably only kept them around for their separate certificate, much like Air Midwest's cert was never combined, but in their case it seems likely the intention was for CC Air to serve the role that Mesa's alter ego Freedom Airlines operation did to circumvent UsAir mainline scope with a healthy helping of concessions on the side just for the fun of it. Iow, I can see how it was a tough call for Woerth who I'm no big fan of.
I'm sure I got some of this wrong, but it's what I remember, here's the fast read on the courts upholding ALPA's rejection of the CC Air deal(kind of depressing as the same fast read has info on a TA at Champion and Midway (II) resuming ops):
2. Court Upholds ALPA's Rejection of CCAir Contract
A federal district court judge last week rejected efforts by Mesa Air Group to judicially impose a concessionary collective bargaining proposal for pilots at CCAir.
Ruling in a suit initially brought by a CCAir pilot and later joined by management, Chief U.S. District Judge Graham C. Mullen denied a motion for a preliminary injunction to force ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, to sign the CCAir agreement.
CCAir's pilots ratified the management-proposed contract on April 29, but the Association rejected it because it had been advanced by CCAir and Mesa Air Group management in a climate of extreme intimidation, unjustifiably degrading working conditions for the pilot group and providing no guarantee that CCAir would survive.
Judge Mullen noted that ALPA's requirement under its Constitution and By-Laws that all collective bargaining agreements be reviewed and signed by the union president was well known to CCAir. He added that, even absent a signed agreement, CCAir's fate was determined solely by US Airways, for whom CCAir provided service as a Mesa subsidiary.
Following the hearing, Captain Woerth said, "At this point, we are hoping that we can take this out of the courtroom and back to the bargaining table where it belongs, so that we can work together to try to save CCAir pilots' jobs."
I was somewhat familiar with this info. I know Ornstien would give Lorenzo a run for his money. Thanks......you to Lag.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
